Some Sin 2 Info

[Christomad]

According to HalfLife2Files.com, Sin 2 is going to be released in episodes via Steam and the game will be using Half-Life 2's Source engine. The article can be found here (http://halflife2.filefront.com/news/Sin_2_Game_Gets_Steam_Release;19994).

[ep911]

aha,good news SiN-Source .best looking graphics engine.
sounds good to me!
btw.says winter 2005 so dust off your original SiN cd and come play =P

[craigp]

Except it's not SiN2 - it's called SiN Episodes.

[TrapperKeeper]

Hmm never liked the look of hl2 and this Wordcraft build Levels. Hope they wont mess this game up! This episode based development is a great help for game developers wich wanna create the games they wanna do, not the publishers.
Its same like tv series, if the ppl like em, they will be on air for years, if they arent sucessfull, developers wont loose so much money creating the pilot episode. Maybe game devs can show some publishers by this way, that it isnt the mainstream games that are the only sellers /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I hope sin 2 will have much more story/interaction than the first one. Words for Ritual=Best wishes for the pilot episode of sin2! Make it exciting enough, open end, so ppl will buy the next episode!

[enfestid]

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=59893

I love the Source engine, but Steam I'm not a huge fan of. I hate the fact that after I've bought the game I have to login just to play it, but that's just my opinion.

And $20 an episode, and the episodes are roughly 6hrs each? I don't know if I'm exactly a fan of that...

[Onden]

Originally posted by craigp:
Except it's not SiN2 - it's called SiN Episodes.


So Craig does that mean it's a remake/retelling of the original Sin as opposed to a true sequel?

I was hoping for as much. Sin was a good game, but certainly had many flaws (and not just the bugs, some levels and gameplay elements were flawed) and apart from the ubiquitous "bad guy (or girl rather) gets away" bit, it didn't leave much room for a clear sequel.

I thinking if they perserved the core story but took a second crack at the game, a second draft if you will, it could be much better.

[Xenogenetic]

It may have some old and new, first episodes starting on the original story and then the later episodes expanding. I had this idea, make a HL2 mod SiN style. I really don't like steam though, but I guess they will update it with SiN Episodes, hopefully.

[TheDarthJedi]

Originally posted by enfestid:
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=59893

I love the Source engine, but Steam I'm not a huge fan of. I hate the fact that after I've bought the game I have to login just to play it, but that's just my opinion.

And $20 an episode, and the episodes are roughly 6hrs each? I don't know if I'm exactly a fan of that...



i despise steam

yea, and $20 an episode?
thats gonna get pricey /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

im not sure how much i'm liking htis..
i find it to be a hella let down /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[craigp]

It's not a remake and it's not SiN 2. It's Sin Episodes, a series of chapters set in the SiN 2 universe that Ritual spent the past few years crafting. If they called it SiN 2, people would expect the game to be delivered in one big chunk.

I asked them about redoing SiN in Source, but you'll have to read the article to find out more /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Riddled]

I'm just wondering how Valve benifits from this strange deal of sorts... I bet they will get a cut of the profits!

If Valve offered this sort of service to other game developing companies, they could form a union of developers that release when and where they want to!

On top of that, there would be fewer fees for the developers allowing them to pass their products over to customers at a lower price and still gain the same amount of profit or just get greedy and hog all the benifits /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.

[Tecman]

This is true, but "this sort of service", meaning Steam, doesn't have a spotless record. It started out as a clunky pile of ... well, you know. If you ask me, it's progressively getting better, and PERSONALLY I've had no problems with it, except the friends list, but I still hear tons of complaints against it, if not flat out hatred.

However this "online distribution system" is where developers seem to be heading, and as long as they provide an "alternative" to people that are unable to download content because of slow internet speeds (online CD/DVD ordering?) and keep the prices reasonable, I forsee a bright future.

[Riddled]

All my hatred is directed towards those who can not accept change.

[Tecman]

"Stubborness does have its helpful features. You always know what you are going to be thinking tomorrow. "

I understand you completely. I really do. But seriously, some people DO have issues with the system that are quite real, so I hope the system itself will soon be improved even more and that it will be viewed more positively overall.

Plus, think about this: Broadband is area-bound, so unlike a fancy 3D card, sometimes you'd have to move just to be able to have broadband, which is a serious downer. Sure, change is good, but have a backup plan for customers that want your product, but have "issues" obtaining it. I cannot count all the times people bitched about either not having a credit card, having issues with Steam, or not having broadband.

[Onden]

Originally posted by craigp:
It's not a remake and it's not SiN 2. It's Sin Episodes, a series of chapters set in the SiN 2 universe that Ritual spent the past few years crafting. If they called it SiN 2, people would expect the game to be delivered in one big chunk.

I asked them about redoing SiN in Source, but you'll have to read the article to find out more /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif


Heh that just raises more questions. You say "SiN 2 universe" as though it's discrete from the Sin universe. Does this mean they're not continuing from the fiction established in Sin?

I wish I could check out that article but being in the US, I don't know any lovel newstands that carry the UK edition of PC Gamer. Once the article hits the public think you could allow someone to post some scans?

[UniKorn]

I don't have any problems with Steam, works superbly here. On Hl2 launch day it was hard to register, that is true, but after that it went smoothly.

The only thing that bothers me is 20$ an episode. I buy quite a lot of games, but spending 20$ on an episode seems a bit much.

[JezzyBall]

Originally posted by UniKorn:
I don't have any problems with Steam, works superbly here. On Hl2 launch day it was hard to register, that is true, but after that it went smoothly.

The only thing that bothers me is 20$ an episode. I buy quite a lot of games, but spending 20$ on an episode seems a bit much.



For 6 hours of Gaming? HL2 was about 7 hours for 60 bucks. Sounds like a bargain to me.

[Tecman]

You must be sarcastic. 7 hours? What did you do, rocketeer through the levels? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[Riddled]

Naw man, he bunnyhopped the entire game... Also there are bugs in the engine that can help you skip areas, along with intentionally placed shortcuts that can knock a good two to three hours off if pulled off without pausing for a breather.

*Takes a breather*

And that was all one sentence.

[sayNO2steam]

they are simply selling themselves to valve
what will be next? valve actually buying them?

steam is a proprietary technology
steam is simply monopoly
ritual using steam means they will be totally dependant on
valve and no longer have control over their own products
its really awful news!

ritual had such a close relationship with the great id
elite forces 2 is by far the best looking quake3 engine
based pc game available
so why change? why not use the fabulous doom3 engine for
sin? oh what a shame... really sad

[JezzyBall]

Originally posted by sayNO2steam:
they are simply selling themselves to valve
what will be next? valve actually buying them?

steam is a proprietary technology
steam is simply monopoly
ritual using steam means they will be totally dependant on
valve and no longer have control over their own products
its really awful news!

ritual had such a close relationship with the great id
elite forces 2 is by far the best looking quake3 engine
based pc game available
so why change? why not use the fabulous doom3 engine for
sin? oh what a shame... really sad



Nonsense again. So Valve is worse than EA? Activision? Vivendi? ROFLMAO. Please.

No longer have control of thier own products? Please show me that in the contract? In fact, I would argue that they now have MORE control. Steam allows them to release episodes when they are ready and done and viable.

Ritual has always done a good job with whatever engine they've used. How was iD going to distribute Rit's game?

[Tecman]

Ladies and gentlemen, please read this bit of info from http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=324&Item id=2

Ritual believes retail will not lose out from a system which largely bypasses them. "We are going to reach one audience by delivering episodes through the internet and we will expand to another consumer group when the retail collection of episodes hits store shelves," explains Nix. "Our early discussions with retailers indicate that they want to sell great games to their customers regardless of the initial distribution channel. We still need to reach customers looking for a more traditional content offering at a standard price point and the retailers understand that. A great product can thrive in both channels even if one happens before the other."

So here's hoping to satisfying both parties, steam-haters and steam-nonhaters?

[MysterD]

Originally posted by Tecman:
Ladies and gentlemen, please read this bit of info from http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=324&Item id=2

Ritual believes retail will not lose out from a system which largely bypasses them. "We are going to reach one audience by delivering episodes through the internet and we will expand to another consumer group when the retail collection of episodes hits store shelves," explains Nix. "Our early discussions with retailers indicate that they want to sell great games to their customers regardless of the initial distribution channel. We still need to reach customers looking for a more traditional content offering at a standard price point and the retailers understand that. A great product can thrive in both channels even if one happens before the other."

So here's hoping to satisfying both parties, steam-haters and steam-nonhaters?



I really like the fact they are thinking about releasing this eventually on CD/DVD. I can live w/ that.

I don't blame them for going to Steam, since no publishers tried to take the game on for retail distribution (to their approval and/or as far as we know) -- so what were they to do, right?

What's most important is they get this thing out there in some shape or form.

If word spreads via Steam the game's good, I'm sure it'll sell well when it hits retail stores, as those who buy from retailers will go for it.

[sayNO2steam]

Originally posted by JezzyBall:

> Nonsense again. So Valve is worse than EA? Activision? Vivendi?

steam basically creates a SINGLE publisher for pc games
combining all together ea + activision + vivendi + all other pc
game publishers into a single company called valve is very bad!
very worrisome! its the worse thing that could happen to pc games
its called monopoly!

> No longer have control of thier own products? Please show me

will ritual distribute their own products? no!
it will be valve
ritual only replaced activision which distributed in a proper
retail packaged box product the original sin with valve using
steam for this new sin sequel
they switched activision with valve
and for you valve is better than activision? oh for me its not!
i prefer a million times activision than valve

> that in the contract? In fact, I would argue that they now
> have MORE control. Steam allows them to release episodes when

for what i read steam based pc games have to be coded from
scratch for steam and cannot be later separated from it
so basically if you start of with steam you will never get
rid of it
its like a forever marriage
do you think that's good for any developer? being stuck with
a closed proprietary technology?
do you call this independent?
i call it steam dependency! valve dependency!

> Ritual has always done a good job with whatever engine
> they've used. How was iD going to distribute Rit's game?

but why do you need to change the way pc games are distributed?
the traditional way of selling playing and patching has worked
for the past decade and made pc games so successful and great
we don't need any changes in the way pc games are distributed
ritual doesn't need id to "invent" new ways to distribute pc
games but rather the best graphic engine available much better
than the one from valve

did ritual made any complain against activision? or take2? or
sierra? or novalogic? the publishers that ritual has worked in
the past?
there are so many publishers out there for ritual to work with
so its bad, very bad decision the alliance with valve

[sayNO2steam]

Originally posted by Tecman:

> So here's hoping to satisfying both parties, steam-haters and
> steam-nonhaters?

it really depends
if its the same as hl2 then my answer is NO! NO! NO!
the hl2 thing that appeared on retail stores was an ABERRATION!
was such an aberration that vivendi gave up completely selling

we don't want in retail pc games infected with steam!
a sin retail sequel YES but steam FREE!
totally and completely steam FREE!
we don't want to buy a retail game and be forced to connect to
the internet and be humiliated by asking for permission to use
it or be forced to patch the game when the publisher decides
and only via steam
sin sequel retail YES BUT STEAM FREE!
sin sequel retail exactly the same as the original sin in a
proper physical packaged box in a cd or dvd and with patches
available individually for manual apply
NO STEAM IN SIN SEQUEL RETAIL! PLEASE RITUAL! I'M BEGGING!

[Grash]

Originally posted by sayNO2steam:
but why do you need to change the way pc games are distributed?
the traditional way of selling playing and patching has worked
for the past decade and made pc games so successful and great...



The model doesn't work anymore and if thing don't change "My Friends, We Are F--ed." (actual quote from Greg Costikyan).

Read more here, and you better MR "I hate steam":
http://www.gamespy.com/articles/596/596734p1.html

----
Steam isn't the only player out there. Game xStream is just starting up and it's the same thing as Steam: Digital Distribution of games. oh, Did you just land on my Park Place with a Hotel on it? I think you owe me some money pal.

[sayNO2steam]

Originally posted by Grash:

<snip>

i don't think this is the place to discuss the state of pc
games but yes i agree pc games are living difficult moments

i understand developers and publishers want changes to make
them get more money, more power and control over us and to
benefit them, its natural so its also natural we pc gamers
defend ourselves

its obvious a developers conference will say good things
about a system model like steam!
and btw do you have any article about a pc gamers conference
and what they (we) think about the state of pc games?
the press isn't interested in listening to us pc gamers?
aren't we as important as the developers and publishers?

you are seeing things only through one side but there are two
sides! they developers and we the consumer, the pc gamers!

yes valve will try and say to everyone steam is the saviour
of pc games and i'll tell its a lie and a disgusting way to
take advantage of a weak moment in pc games

the traditional way of buying, playing and patching will be
the only way i accept being a pc gamer
its as simple as this, if abusive and intrusive systems like
steam conquer pc gamer i will simply stop being a pc gamer

my dignity, my freedom, my consumer rights are above any pc
game so if proper pc game titles sold in a retail box in a
physical cd or dvd package with no humiliating ask for permission
activations and with individual file patches to apply manually
will no longer be available then i'm out and i'll stop buying pc
games

as a pc gamer i'll ready to listen to developers and publishers
point of view but let me make it clear i'll never accept going
the steam "route", NEVER

ps: yes i know about other systems and other games and you will
see me fighting against prey like i fight against half-life 2
or the sin sequel
did you expect i would give up easily on my favorite hobby?

[Grash]

The sad thing is that because he's so aginst steam there's no way to give this guy a digital roshambo* when the Sin:Epsidodes Multi-player comes out.

(* - I'll be using the cartman style...)

[JezzyBall]

Originally posted by Grash:
The sad thing is that because he's so aginst steam there's no way to give this guy a digital roshambo* when the Sin:Epsidodes Multi-player comes out.

(* - I'll be using the cartman style...)



Let's not feed the trolls anymore. Maybe they'll go away where they can work out thier issues....