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-   -   Censorship in the Steam version of SiN? (http://www.ritualistic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17016)

Omega1 04-09-2006 07:09 PM

Censorship in the Steam version of SiN?
 
I recently pre-ordered the new SiN episode on Steam and I was quite surprised to find out that the original version of the game would come with it. Even though I already have the original game installed, I was led to believe that apparantly this version was improved in some way, and if for no other reason than out of curiousity I wanted to play it on Steam.

However, it didn't take long for me to notice that artwork for one of the new characters introduced in the new SiN episode was added in a few places. I was wondering, aside from playfully plugging the new game, why this was done? A quick Google search led me to here and I read that this was apparantly due to rights issues with content in the original game. I was fairly intruiged by this and I started to poke around through the Steam gcf file's contents to see what differed from the original sin/pak file.

First I checked for the infamous nude Elexis located in the folder-x file. It's missing entirely in the Steam version. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Okay, at this point I thought stuff was just edited, not removed entirely, but I guess removing the nude skin is somewhat understandable.

Then just for kicks, since I was checking the skin files under the pl_Elexis folder, I compared the Steam skins to the originals. In the damaged versions of her skin in the original game, one of her nipples was exposed. I always thought this was quite funny to see in multiplayer. However, in the Steam version of the game, all the damaged versions of Elexis's skins have been edited to remove the nipple. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] wtf? Surely this has nothing to do with rights issues; why change it?

Out of desperation, I checked the texture for the female civilian. Her damaged texture shows a partial, partial, nip-slip that would probably get away in a PG film. It's there in the original game of course, but oddly, when I tried shooting the female civilian in the Steam version, her damaged textures becomes all messed up. Why is it messed up? Because, checking the tga skin file in the gcf, it was apparantly improperly saved for the correct format when it was edited. And how was it edited? The nip-slip was removed! Obviously this was not just a simple accident. For some reason someone deliberately went through every skin file and censored every slight hint of nudity.

This is nothing more than blatant censoring, and I don't see any reason for it. This is almost as bad as going through history books and erasing any mention of the Holocaust to deny it ever happened. Why was it done? What is it good for? Is this really just a sad reflection of our time and the fear of including any racy content in clearly aimed-toward-adult games?

Here are two comparison pictures. Hopefully which one is the censored one is obvious:


MadMax 04-09-2006 07:42 PM

Re: Censorship in the Steam version of SiN?
 
Aren't you getting a bit much worked up about such a tiny issue? I'd have much bigger problems with the changed artwork in the maps...

Omega1 04-09-2006 07:52 PM

Re: Censorship in the Steam version of SiN?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by MadMax:
Aren't you getting a bit much worked up about such a tiny issue? I'd have much bigger problems with the changed artwork in the maps...

The changed artwork is due to legal issues, as is my understanding. That could cost quite a lot to be able to have those particular pieces returned to the game. Therefore, I can understand changing that stuff.

Howver, this censorship of nudity is completely basless as far as I can tell. Censorship in of itself is bad, and I can't see why it should be tolerated at all. I even pointed out an instance where an attempt at censoring a texture has caused a bug/error/glitch ingame where there was none before. If censorship is not troublesome enough, having new bugs being created should be enough of a reason to not like this.

deceiver 04-09-2006 08:54 PM

Re: Censorship in the Steam version of SiN?
 
Well to compensate, in SiN episodes: Emergence, you get to be in a tub with a totally nude elexis with much better graphics! =P

guru7892 04-09-2006 11:16 PM

Re: Censorship in the Steam version of SiN?
 
this could have to do with the esrb, especialy after the GTA incident, these people cant take any chances.(valve may not allow steam to carry AO games as a pure policy issue and because they cant be sure of who is acually behind the screen downloading their stuff)

in the 90's you could stab people and nobody would care (because sparks came out), but now if you even think-

*multiple surpressed auto-pistol shots*

This never happened... OK?

Standoff 04-12-2006 12:29 AM

Re: Censorship in the Steam version of SiN?
 
I just hope that download services get age controls so that instead of content being customized for a single age group, it might be varied for several of them. It would certainly make my day brighter. Though I have no idea how they'd verify.

Standoff 04-12-2006 12:39 AM

Re: Censorship in the Steam version of SiN?
 
The most annoying thing about it is if it's equivalent to an R rated movie, then why the editing? Sure, kids can and probably will play it. But kids can and do watch R rated movies too, yet those aren't dumbed down at all. I don't understand the industries fears here.

DrWoo McM 04-12-2006 01:02 AM

Re: Censorship in the Steam version of SiN?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Omega1:
I recently pre-ordered the new SiN episode on Steam and I was quite surprised to find out that the original version of the game would come with it. Even though I already have the original game installed, I was led to believe that apparantly this version was improved in some way, and if for no other reason than out of curiousity I wanted to play it on Steam.

However, it didn't take long for me to notice that artwork for one of the new characters introduced in the new SiN episode was added in a few places. I was wondering, aside from playfully plugging the new game, why this was done? A quick Google search led me to here and I read that this was apparantly due to rights issues with content in the original game. I was fairly intruiged by this and I started to poke around through the Steam gcf file's contents to see what differed from the original sin/pak file.

First I checked for the infamous nude Elexis located in the folder-x file. It's missing entirely in the Steam version. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Okay, at this point I thought stuff was just edited, not removed entirely, but I guess removing the nude skin is somewhat understandable.

Then just for kicks, since I was checking the skin files under the pl_Elexis folder, I compared the Steam skins to the originals. In the damaged versions of her skin in the original game, one of her nipples was exposed. I always thought this was quite funny to see in multiplayer. However, in the Steam version of the game, all the damaged versions of Elexis's skins have been edited to remove the nipple. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] wtf? Surely this has nothing to do with rights issues; why change it?

Out of desperation, I checked the texture for the female civilian. Her damaged texture shows a partial, partial, nip-slip that would probably get away in a PG film. It's there in the original game of course, but oddly, when I tried shooting the female civilian in the Steam version, her damaged textures becomes all messed up. Why is it messed up? Because, checking the tga skin file in the gcf, it was apparantly improperly saved for the correct format when it was edited. And how was it edited? The nip-slip was removed! Obviously this was not just a simple accident. For some reason someone deliberately went through every skin file and censored every slight hint of nudity.

This is nothing more than blatant censoring, and I don't see any reason for it. This is almost as bad as going through history books and erasing any mention of the Holocaust to deny it ever happened. Why was it done? What is it good for? Is this really just a sad reflection of our time and the fear of including any racy content in clearly aimed-toward-adult games?

Here are two comparison pictures. Hopefully which one is the censored one is obvious:


That's lame. Come on.. It's not like these are Photo-realistic images in the game. Geez!!!!!

carbon 04-12-2006 03:27 AM

Re: Censorship in the Steam version of SiN?
 
wow... i really had to think about this one.
i've pretty much spent my life fighting censorship, but admitedly, there's a difference here. it lies within who is censoring it and for what reasons. personally, I'd rather see the original, but i digress it was the developers' who have modified / edited their own content in this case, not some huge fascist black hand or 'the man', or religious zealots doing it. if the reasons were for adult content in a game that they know will have a younger following, then i would applaud their decision just because it's good business sense.

it's not unusual to see artists modify and edit their material in an evolving manner to appeal to the right audiences, and this i feel is what's happening here. in my younger days, i would have been one of the first to jump up and yell something to the effect of 'ah man they're selling out!, that's total bs!'... but after seeing how this industry works, imo it's not an unreasonable edit to make.

if seeing a nipple is the highlight of your day, i'm sure you should be able to find something in any search engine... just type 'nipples' into google and see what pops up (pun intended).


The MiMiC 04-12-2006 04:14 AM

Re: Censorship in the Steam version of SiN?
 
One bit of editing I do NOT agree with is what George Lucas did to the original trilogy.
I mean, seriously, making Han Solo dodge the shot and shoot second was bad enough, but to alter the dieing Darth Vader's eye color to match the new Anakin's was worse. And to edit in Hayden Christensen, HAYDEN CHRISTENSEN, during the ending of Return of the Jedi? OMG.

RATBURN360 04-12-2006 08:35 AM

Re: Censorship in the Steam version of SiN?
 
What you must realize is America is run by Christians mainly and they are also the main audience. As far as all the other minority people go, we most likely have to suffer.
I for one, found the nipple slips in the original sin to be very hard to spot (someone showed them to me).

Standoff 04-12-2006 11:20 AM

Re: Censorship in the Steam version of SiN?
 
I understand the tighter controls on M rated games after the Grand Theft Auto thing... This whole stupid thing will have to go away eventually.

I can understand getting rid of the fully nude bit, at least.

RATBURN360 04-12-2006 01:18 PM

Re: Censorship in the Steam version of SiN?
 
One can hope it goes away. There are much better things to worry about... things like... which arn't sex-related. XD

Serevinus 04-12-2006 01:58 PM

Re: Censorship in the Steam version of SiN?
 
Cant you give people an option when downloading games whether or not they want nudity in the game (with an age check if necessary), and depending on their choice download a different texture pack, you can put all the common textures in one GCF and have 2 separate GCFs for graphic and non graphic content, I donít think that would add much size to the distribution and it would probably keep people on both sides happy.

Standoff 04-12-2006 02:23 PM

Re: Censorship in the Steam version of SiN?
 
I doubt Valve/Steam is set up to do any age checking, though. I don't really know how that even works, but it would probably add some expense to the operation if it would work.

I don't expect it to happen anytime soon, though. It's a topic that most people are comfortable avoiding.

Omega1 04-12-2006 09:53 PM

Re: Censorship in the Steam version of SiN?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by carbon:
imo it's not an unreasonable edit to make.

In my opinion, I think this censorship is absolutely unacceptable. Are we living in such a paranoid time that developers (In any form of media, be it video games, movies, etc) feel that a visible nipple is going to cause a massive public outcry and backlash? What next? Put pants on Michelangelo's David and throw a towel over the Venus De Milo's naughty bits?

This is a bad prescedent to be setting and does not bode well for future standards. I, for one, do not want to see creators going back through their work to change it to make it more acceptable by the day's current standard. But, should that prove true, is this really what we're degrading into? Have the terrorists of prude-ism really won?

Also, here's a picture of the skin error I mentioned in my first post:
http://home.comcast.net/~pudmonkey1/damageskinerror.jpg

Just to reiterate, this bug would not exist if the game was not attempted to be censored.

Michael_Russell 04-12-2006 10:37 PM

Re: Censorship in the Steam version of SiN?
 
Civilian female skin error fixed in coming patch for SiN 1.

Changelist coming soon.

Xenogenetic 04-12-2006 11:15 PM

Re: Censorship in the Steam version of SiN?
 
lol, "error"

EDIT: oops I guess I should have read more than the first and last post, I am sure someone will be able to find the old texture and send it to you.

carbon 04-13-2006 03:39 AM

Re: Censorship in the Steam version of SiN?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Omega1:
.Are we living in such a paranoid time that developers (In any form of media, be it video games, movies, etc) feel that a visible nipple is going to cause a massive public outcry and backlash? What next? Put pants on Michelangelo's David and throw a towel over the Venus De Milo's naughty bits?

This is a bad prescedent to be setting and does not bode well for future standards. I, for one, do not want to see creators going back through their work to change it to make it more acceptable by the day's current standard. But, should that prove true, is this really what we're degrading into? Have the terrorists of prude-ism really won?


an interesting point, and to a point; i agree with you... but without a formal explaination from the devs, every part of this conversation is purely speculative. i have to say that imo if they were truly censoring the game, they would have done something about the language dialogue as well, but that seems to have remained intact.
really though, by comparison, Micheangelo's David would have to be edited / censored by the artist himself to be applicable in this respect... and i don't see that happening any time soon.

the point i was trying to make is that if you put yourself in the shoes of the developers, do you make a small and somewhat trivial edit if you know that your product will find a more tangible and accepting audience, or do you refuse to compromise your artistic creativity, perhaps not getting your material seen at all by refusal? since we don't know really that this is the case, again, pure speculation. i still don't think it's an unreasonable edit because it's just a nipple, and tbh wasn't a very clear view of one. it certainly didn't appeal to my 'prurient interest'.

my view: blame Janet Jackson!

RATBURN360 04-13-2006 06:45 AM

Re: Censorship in the Steam version of SiN?
 
I wonder if anything would really happen if all the old content was still intact. I would like to see it happen and see if any legal action would be taken. Sometimes, you see things in games and nobody cares or even notices. It is like this only happens in things which are popular or spread among a wide audience. If Christian groups are so compelled to do this stuff they should just censor absolutely everything no matter the cost (NAZIS! COUGH...). I mean, why bother if you don't even go all the way? I'm still waiting for them to pull this off but most likely it will never happen (thank you!!!). Silly people... they cant even say the word nipple under their breath without turning bright red in the face and getting angry about something. Still its only a game, but this isn't only about the game. People need to loosen up about this stuff. I don't see why people are so tense on sexuality anyways in the US. Look at other countries and see the results of their behavior and beliefs. I still think the only way to overcome censorship is to act against it.

/rant
Okay. :P

Also, what is this I keep hearing about a fully nude bit? Me must know more... Elexis!!?

H4d3s 04-13-2006 07:57 PM

Re: Censorship in the Steam version of SiN?
 
all this trouble about nudity and sexual content...

isn't something going on about tomb raider: legend in the us because of a nude texture, that is only visible in the editor (not used in the game)?

i mean, where do these people, who are so prude, get their children, whom they want to "protect" from sexual content, from? the stork?

very interesting, that the only thing they complain about in a game, where you can murder, hit and run, steal, rob and so on (gta) is a minigame about sex, which wasn't even implemented...

some kind of annoys me, that because of them we don't get some things the way they should be. don't want to know what the average us gamer would say if games were censored concerning violence, because of stupid german anti-violence issues...

btw: shouldn't nudity in games be protected by the us constitution? freedom of speech and such? even nazi-propaganda is protected by that...

MadMax 04-14-2006 06:49 AM

Re: Censorship in the Steam version of SiN?
 
Quote:

Also, what is this I keep hearing about a fully nude bit? Me must know more... Elexis!!?

In the original version of Sin, there was a skin texture file for a completely nude Elexis, but this file was never available inside the game except in the multiplayer setup menu, which was later fixed (completely removed). You could in fact alter the Elexis model .DEF file to include the skin again and view it applied to the model in a model viewer like SinView. It's not really a big deal anyway since the model isn't particularly beautiful and very edgy, but the skin looks quite natural nonetheless.

CommanderZx2 04-14-2006 08:53 AM

Re: Censorship in the Steam version of SiN?
 
You can get that nude skin again
http://www.ritualistic.com/forums/sh...;Number=157588

nutcrackr 04-14-2006 10:30 AM

Re: Censorship in the Steam version of SiN?
 
That's quite sad, it's a real pity that game censorship has come this far. God forbid you see a nipple in a game where you can blow people into pieces [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

JezzyBall 04-14-2006 02:01 PM

Re: Censorship in the Steam version of SiN?
 
I gotta say Nut - your avatar busts me up...

[img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]


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