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-   -   Arena_MeatLoop_Beta (http://www.ritualistic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18393)

Shallow 08-12-2006 12:55 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
Aesthetics: At first I thought the light in the exterior area was completely white, but you can see it's yellowish in the interior areas so. Might be because the start point has you staring right at that white light on the stair entrance, and a brightly lit concrete wall just on the left edge of your vision that I thought this, it's still surprisingly desaturated for such a low sun.

I thought the insides seemed a little sparse, maybe signage and stuff has yet to go in. There's nice details in the roof and stuff but not much going on at eye level in a lot of places. Perhaps differing paint colours in the walls for some areas as well.

Gameplay: I'm not sure what you can do about it but it seems to be suffering from being spread out. If you spend too long in one area your entire bad dude allowance can get spawned around there, so if you move on you end up trekking right back to keep on with the killin', you go for ages without a kill and the challenge level decreases. That said, I've found the same thing in the larger official arena too, so it may be a general issue with arena mode for maps that have several distinct areas and not something to worry about.

I found I tend to hang around the central bit of the warehouse where that upright tank is. This also seemed to be the best bit of the map movement wise: There's lots of nice opportunities for cutting into different areas quickly to get out of trouble in there. Due to my amazing powers of observation, I completely missed the centre staircase down to the lower inside warehouse on my first round (the one right next to the upright tank). Once I spotted that I would scoot through there occasionally, but still mostly stayed up above with the occasional duck just out the door for a quiet reload. I didn't really use the tall stairwell between the lower level and the corner of the outside yard, it seemed too out of the way.

Constructive crits aside, it seems solid to me and was definitely fun to play.

Edit: Forgot to mention, sometimes when I start the map it sounds like there's a second piece of music overlaid on the usual Arena mode intro. I guess if you're triggering music it might need a bit more of delay.

Eveningfall 08-12-2006 08:34 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
BAH!! I still can't get the file open. I am eagerly waiting for the finished version.

MeatPuppet 08-12-2006 11:34 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
Thanks for the feedback Shallow. As of Friday afternoon I added one more grunt spawn location and some more art inside the building. It still might feel "lonely" to players that camp one area for a while. I purposefully laid out the map so a bunnyhopping DM player is likely to get a higher score than a camper.

I'm thinking about adding some health and ammo pickups near the bottom of the spiral stairs to get players to visit that part of the map. I still want to try a few things before I put another update out.


UTWarden 08-13-2006 10:26 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
this is a fun map, Definetly looking forward to the next one!

on a side note, did you have the ritual avatar when you fist posted this? I don't remeber seing it.

MeatPuppet 08-14-2006 09:58 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
I'm not sure when Badman hooked me up with the avatar. It happened recently though.

PrivateNewbie 08-15-2006 01:18 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
I was about to say... "Wow! First decent user made map!" But I just noticed that it was made by an actual level designer. So now that I'm reviewing this knowing that an actual dev made it... I'm gonna have to be a bit of a jerk... come on dude! You're a professional! Why isn't this map absolutely amazing?! I think it's good... but only good for a fan map. Sorry to say... I'm an ass I guess. However, it is a beta, so I'm sure the final release will be grand.


So now I'll actually explain myself... The things I'd like to see improved are as follows: more cover, more breakable crap (which is always cool to see), areas that connect better (the arena is more of a circle), and a bit more detail, not just a bunch of blank walls.

Blitzy 08-15-2006 04:44 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
Just FYI, people don't just crap out professional grade stuff, it doesn't work like that. Construction goes through stages and they build upon each other.

MeatPuppet 08-15-2006 10:04 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta

Originally Posted by Blitzy
people don't just crap out professional grade stuff

We don't? :) Man, you should have seen the first version of this map. It was going to be an old movie theatre in a beat down part of a city. It was horrible. LOL.

MeatPuppet 08-15-2006 04:34 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
I updated the map:

...added one more grunt and one more spawn location.
...added a little more art.
...added a health station at the bottom of the spiral stairs.
...added primary shotgun and assault rifle ammo pickups.
...relocated the player starting position.
...I made it so grunts can't destroy the platform under the mega health.
...changed the timing of the music track so it doesn't overlap the default arena mode music.
...I removed the player clip from a couple of corners so they can be used as cover.


UTWarden 08-15-2006 07:59 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
you might want to rename the file on the main page, it shows no difference in name, so I wasn't sure if it was different.

I also renamed it to beta2 so I could keep the old one.

MeatPuppet 08-15-2006 09:42 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta

Originally Posted by UTWarden
you might want to rename the file on the main page, it shows no difference in name, so I wasn't sure if it was different.

I also renamed it to beta2 so I could keep the old one.

Man, where is the trust? Do you think I'd steer you wrong? ;)

ertertwert 08-17-2006 12:41 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
I just now finally got around to trying out your map. First of all, congrats on releasing a map in your spare time. Heh. Now for some feedback.

I dig the high ceilings and large rooms, but sometimes it feels a bit too large making the player feel like a rat (I don't know if this was intentional or not). It's not really a problem, just thought I would bring it to your attention.

I noticed a lack of ladders in the map. I think it would be neat to be able to climb up to the rafters and fight atop them. Purely selfish fulfillment on my part, though.

I thought it would be cool if enemies could rappel in from the ceiling in this room. Perhaps make the roof glass and have them break through it, or have an exposion open up a hole that grunts can jump through.

There is an annoying glitch in the starting area that makes the background jump in front of the barbed-wire texture. As you move around this is what you see. Before. After.

I also noticed that there are a lot of long hallways that don't really seem to have a purpose in a real world setting. Maybe add some glass windows showing some rooms or labs. Something to give the map a real world grounding. The layout is fine, but I would try to make it look more interesting.

Definitely a cool concept (forcing the player to move his ass rather than camp) and I would love to see this map evolve to something even better.

MeatPuppet 08-17-2006 10:20 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
Thanks for checking the map out. As for adding ladders, I won't use them in an arena map because it would allow the player to get somewhere where the grunts couldn't follow. They can run, shoot, throw grenades, and take cover but they can't use a ladder.

I'll think about the rappelling grunts. It might be interesting.

The alpha on the barbed wire model and how the engine handles it I can't do anything about. I do have fade distances set on the models though and they might need some tweaking. I'll check it out.

Thanks for the feedback.

Cynosure 08-17-2006 06:14 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
Since it's called MeatLoop I thought it was a meat factory. If that's what it is then maybe have some chunks of meat hanging from hooks that you can use as cover in some of the rooms.

MeatPuppet 08-17-2006 06:37 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
As an exercise I'm trying to use just the assets that shipped with SinEp1. As far as I know we didn't put in any big slabs of beef. :)

I just thought MeatLoop had a nice ring to it.

UTWarden 08-18-2006 12:22 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
I'm hesitant to have both the secret in it as well as a health unit. at 20 challenge I used both :(

Xenogenetic 08-18-2006 02:53 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
I just played this and I am so happy someone made a map the way real FPS are meant to be played. I don't think I stopped bhopping during the whole 15 minutes. I also owned, it is so much easier to make headshots in mid air than it is standing still. I liked it and didn't find anything wrong with it. The only thing you could do would be to add more breakables and explosions just for looks, so the player can feel like they really tore shit up while playing.

MeatPuppet 08-18-2006 10:09 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
I'm glad you enjoyed it. You're not the only one who has mentioned explosions. What would you think about explosive barrels placed around parts of the map? The catch would be that I would make it so that the grunts would use them against you too.

Xenogenetic 08-18-2006 10:24 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
That would be awesome, I would love to throw an exploding barrel at a grunt!

ertertwert 08-18-2006 09:31 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
The only problem with that idea is that everyone would blow them up in the first minute. Now respawnable barrles on the other hand... Hmm... Haha.

UTWarden 08-19-2006 09:36 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta

Originally Posted by MeatPuppet
I'm glad you enjoyed it. You're not the only one who has mentioned explosions. What would you think about explosive barrels placed around parts of the map? The catch would be that I would make it so that the grunts would use them against you too.

Ripper used them in deconstruction, I usually run away from them but they can be used both ways!

ripper_hugme 08-19-2006 07:11 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
I did originally consider respawnable barrels using the point_template method, but I thought I should let the player use them wisely and only when needed.

Xenogenetic 08-19-2006 07:12 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
Respawnable barrels would be pretty easy to do, along with making that ammo respawnable maybe? :)

MeatPuppet 08-20-2006 12:55 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
I'm not going to make respawnable ammo pickups and exploding barrles. The dynamic difficulty system does a good job of providing ammo drops and I don't think it uses the number of exploding barrles in a map in the challenge calculations. It would just make the map easier and I think it's just about right as it is.

Lord_Trid 08-20-2006 04:06 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
I just played this. It's awsome in my opinion :D

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