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-   -   Arena_MeatLoop_Beta (http://www.ritualistic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18393)

MeatPuppet 08-07-2006 05:24 PM

Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
I'm looking for some feedback.

I designed the flow with DM and Coop in mind. All the stairs are player clipped so you can bunnyhop up them and there is a secret mega health pickup available on the map.

http://00johnboyd00.googlepages.com/home

Thanks,
MeatPuppet

UTWarden 08-07-2006 09:02 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
Saweet Map!!

Blitzy 08-08-2006 01:18 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
I like this map!

I do a have a few things I want to suggest however.

First and foremost, I found there were some spot around the map that were player clipped that, I personally don't think need to be player clipped.


For instance:
This stretch between these pillar things were clipped and I couldn't use it for a little bit of cover because of that. Although I did find that other spots between pillars down in that basement were not player clipped!



Also, in the stairwell going from the basement to the surface, I didn't like having the corners clipped there either, I don't like the feeling that I'm forcefully being pushed/urged in a direction. I understand that you probably did it to "smooth" out movement and/or to help people from getting stuck, but I found it to be more of an annoyance and restriction than anything.



Just an asthetic issue, but I would suggest closing that up or doing something nice with it other than to leave it open to the skybox, the casual player won't notice it but it's eye catching to FPS vets.


And one more observation. In the outside crate area, I found that the majority of that was unused during actual combat gameplay... dead space so to speak. I usually went straight from the porch thing to the stairwell, the enemies seemed to like to do the same thing even if I hid in the crates area.

The map played really well, the enemy placement is great in my opinion, it flows very smoothly, and it doesn't destroy my frames per second when the going gets tough! :D

Ritual handing out beta's of their maps...! :O
I like it.

MeatPuppet 08-08-2006 01:43 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
Yeah, I smoothed out most of the corners because when I play it I bunnyhop everywhere and hate getting stuck on geometry. I still need to learn that not everyone will play it like I do. :)

Art for outside the fence and some more inside the building is still in the plan.

I was mostly concerned with peoples' framerates, grunts spawning in front of people, and hopefully no one gets stuck somewhere or finds some cheesy exploit.

Thanks for the feedback!

Blitzy 08-08-2006 02:02 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
I've played it a few times now and I havn't had any grunts spawn in front of me or anything.

And yeah, I tryed playing it by exclusively bunnyhoppin' everywhere, I can see how all that player clipping helps with that play style ;)

Oh I also found the secret mega health :D

UTWarden 08-08-2006 04:34 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
I didn't have to find it, the AI found it for me.

[edit]Dunno about you's, but a grenade off the walls especially in the stairway doesn't seem to bounce right.[/edit]

MeatPuppet 08-08-2006 07:20 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by UTWarden
I didn't have to find it, the AI found it for me.

Ha. Not much of a secret if that happens. I'll fix that. Thanks.

UTWarden 08-08-2006 08:25 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MeatPuppet
Ha. Not much of a secret if that happens. I'll fix that. Thanks.


the AI didn't outright show it to me, but a grenade explosion from one did. ;)

Cynosure 08-08-2006 11:29 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
Awesome map. I liked how there where both narrow hallway areas and wide open areas. Gives you a bit of variety.

The open area inside the building was great. I like how it was set on all different levels. I was always jumping around and flying across the map while shooting people.

Fun stuff!!

Eveningfall 08-09-2006 04:29 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
It looks interesting, but I can't download the map. The download gets to 4 megs and then stops. I tried it on both EI and Firefox. Can someone post an alternate download?

Sarkie 08-09-2006 04:53 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
At a guess, are you part of Ritual, MeatPuppet?

MeatPuppet 08-09-2006 10:58 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
Much to their chagrin I'm sure, but yes. ;)

RipeX 08-09-2006 05:30 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
Are you working on this map when you're at work?

MeatPuppet 08-09-2006 06:03 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RipeX
Are you working on this map when you're at work?

No. I only work on it every now and then, when I have some free time. Don't bother asking me what I am working on because I can't tell you. ;)

If your interested, I have spent maybe 10 to 12 days on that map. I spent one week or so roughing out and tweaking the geometry and tweaking spawn locations of the grunts. I spent the rest of the time adding the art and working on the lighting.

ripper_hugme 08-11-2006 02:28 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MeatPuppet
If your interested, I have spent maybe 10 to 12 days on that map.

Considering the first released build of mine was done in 6 hours :) , thats impressive for a map with such good brushwork.

Sparda 08-11-2006 05:24 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
This map looks very cool, but every time I try to open the Zip I get this...

I have also downloaded it 3 times now, is there any other mirrors or any thing?

MeatPuppet 08-11-2006 11:01 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
I don't think it is a problem with the .zip file. It works for other people just fine. Maybe try using WinZip? And what's up with Tomb Raider?:)

Sparda 08-11-2006 09:13 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
WinZip didn't work either.

The Tome raider is where all my game related downloads go to,
God knows why it’s called that :/

ripper_hugme 08-11-2006 11:33 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
Didn't work when I redownloaded it.

wisecode 08-12-2006 09:03 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
MeatPuppet, if you want I'll host the file for you in ZIP and RAR formats. (Including any revisions.)
http://www.sdknuts.com/fileup/

Sparda 08-12-2006 09:47 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
I'm awesome I fixed it my self. :D

wisecode 08-12-2006 10:42 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
U da man Sparda san.

UTWarden 08-12-2006 10:49 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blitzy



And one more observation. In the outside crate area, I found that the majority of that was unused during actual combat gameplay... dead space so to speak.

Hey Shush! that was/is my Reload/hide area!

:)

MeatPuppet 08-12-2006 12:01 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparda
I'm awesome I fixed it my self. :D

What did you do to make it work?

Wiscecode, I appreciate the offer but until the map is done I would feel better if it was just at one place. Yes, I'm a control freak. ;)

Sparda 08-12-2006 01:38 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
In WinZip I press Alt+R (Repair Archive) and made a new Zip out of it then used that, In the repaired version it said that the cache file was corrupt, so I just didn't use the cache file.

Shallow 08-12-2006 01:55 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
Aesthetics: At first I thought the light in the exterior area was completely white, but you can see it's yellowish in the interior areas so. Might be because the start point has you staring right at that white light on the stair entrance, and a brightly lit concrete wall just on the left edge of your vision that I thought this, it's still surprisingly desaturated for such a low sun.

I thought the insides seemed a little sparse, maybe signage and stuff has yet to go in. There's nice details in the roof and stuff but not much going on at eye level in a lot of places. Perhaps differing paint colours in the walls for some areas as well.

Gameplay: I'm not sure what you can do about it but it seems to be suffering from being spread out. If you spend too long in one area your entire bad dude allowance can get spawned around there, so if you move on you end up trekking right back to keep on with the killin', you go for ages without a kill and the challenge level decreases. That said, I've found the same thing in the larger official arena too, so it may be a general issue with arena mode for maps that have several distinct areas and not something to worry about.

I found I tend to hang around the central bit of the warehouse where that upright tank is. This also seemed to be the best bit of the map movement wise: There's lots of nice opportunities for cutting into different areas quickly to get out of trouble in there. Due to my amazing powers of observation, I completely missed the centre staircase down to the lower inside warehouse on my first round (the one right next to the upright tank). Once I spotted that I would scoot through there occasionally, but still mostly stayed up above with the occasional duck just out the door for a quiet reload. I didn't really use the tall stairwell between the lower level and the corner of the outside yard, it seemed too out of the way.

Constructive crits aside, it seems solid to me and was definitely fun to play.

Edit: Forgot to mention, sometimes when I start the map it sounds like there's a second piece of music overlaid on the usual Arena mode intro. I guess if you're triggering music it might need a bit more of delay.

Eveningfall 08-12-2006 09:34 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
BAH!! I still can't get the file open. I am eagerly waiting for the finished version.

MeatPuppet 08-13-2006 12:34 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
Thanks for the feedback Shallow. As of Friday afternoon I added one more grunt spawn location and some more art inside the building. It still might feel "lonely" to players that camp one area for a while. I purposefully laid out the map so a bunnyhopping DM player is likely to get a higher score than a camper.

I'm thinking about adding some health and ammo pickups near the bottom of the spiral stairs to get players to visit that part of the map. I still want to try a few things before I put another update out.

Thanks,
MeatPuppet

UTWarden 08-13-2006 11:26 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
this is a fun map, Definetly looking forward to the next one!

on a side note, did you have the ritual avatar when you fist posted this? I don't remeber seing it.

MeatPuppet 08-14-2006 10:58 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
I'm not sure when Badman hooked me up with the avatar. It happened recently though.

PrivateNewbie 08-15-2006 02:18 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
I was about to say... "Wow! First decent user made map!" But I just noticed that it was made by an actual level designer. So now that I'm reviewing this knowing that an actual dev made it... I'm gonna have to be a bit of a jerk... come on dude! You're a professional! Why isn't this map absolutely amazing?! I think it's good... but only good for a fan map. Sorry to say... I'm an ass I guess. However, it is a beta, so I'm sure the final release will be grand.

...

So now I'll actually explain myself... The things I'd like to see improved are as follows: more cover, more breakable crap (which is always cool to see), areas that connect better (the arena is more of a circle), and a bit more detail, not just a bunch of blank walls.

Blitzy 08-15-2006 05:44 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
Just FYI, people don't just crap out professional grade stuff, it doesn't work like that. Construction goes through stages and they build upon each other.

MeatPuppet 08-15-2006 11:04 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blitzy
people don't just crap out professional grade stuff

We don't? :) Man, you should have seen the first version of this map. It was going to be an old movie theatre in a beat down part of a city. It was horrible. LOL.

MeatPuppet 08-15-2006 05:34 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
I updated the map:

...added one more grunt and one more spawn location.
...added a little more art.
...added a health station at the bottom of the spiral stairs.
...added primary shotgun and assault rifle ammo pickups.
...relocated the player starting position.
...I made it so grunts can't destroy the platform under the mega health.
...changed the timing of the music track so it doesn't overlap the default arena mode music.
...I removed the player clip from a couple of corners so they can be used as cover.

MeatPuppet

UTWarden 08-15-2006 08:59 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
you might want to rename the file on the main page, it shows no difference in name, so I wasn't sure if it was different.

I also renamed it to beta2 so I could keep the old one.

MeatPuppet 08-15-2006 10:42 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by UTWarden
you might want to rename the file on the main page, it shows no difference in name, so I wasn't sure if it was different.

I also renamed it to beta2 so I could keep the old one.

Man, where is the trust? Do you think I'd steer you wrong? ;)

ertertwert 08-17-2006 01:41 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
I just now finally got around to trying out your map. First of all, congrats on releasing a map in your spare time. Heh. Now for some feedback.

I dig the high ceilings and large rooms, but sometimes it feels a bit too large making the player feel like a rat (I don't know if this was intentional or not). It's not really a problem, just thought I would bring it to your attention.

I noticed a lack of ladders in the map. I think it would be neat to be able to climb up to the rafters and fight atop them. Purely selfish fulfillment on my part, though.

I thought it would be cool if enemies could rappel in from the ceiling in this room. Perhaps make the roof glass and have them break through it, or have an exposion open up a hole that grunts can jump through.

There is an annoying glitch in the starting area that makes the background jump in front of the barbed-wire texture. As you move around this is what you see. Before. After.

I also noticed that there are a lot of long hallways that don't really seem to have a purpose in a real world setting. Maybe add some glass windows showing some rooms or labs. Something to give the map a real world grounding. The layout is fine, but I would try to make it look more interesting.

Definitely a cool concept (forcing the player to move his ass rather than camp) and I would love to see this map evolve to something even better.

MeatPuppet 08-17-2006 11:20 AM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
Thanks for checking the map out. As for adding ladders, I won't use them in an arena map because it would allow the player to get somewhere where the grunts couldn't follow. They can run, shoot, throw grenades, and take cover but they can't use a ladder.

I'll think about the rappelling grunts. It might be interesting.

The alpha on the barbed wire model and how the engine handles it I can't do anything about. I do have fade distances set on the models though and they might need some tweaking. I'll check it out.

Thanks for the feedback.

Cynosure 08-17-2006 07:14 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
Since it's called MeatLoop I thought it was a meat factory. If that's what it is then maybe have some chunks of meat hanging from hooks that you can use as cover in some of the rooms.

MeatPuppet 08-17-2006 07:37 PM

Re: Arena_MeatLoop_Beta
 
As an exercise I'm trying to use just the assets that shipped with SinEp1. As far as I know we didn't put in any big slabs of beef. :)

I just thought MeatLoop had a nice ring to it.


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