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-   -   A question about VIS. times (http://www.ritualistic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7129)

eutectic 10-12-1999 08:29 PM

Re: A question about VIS. times
 
Hmmm... sounds like you have a lot of brushes withs lots of sides intersecting one another and all in the same room.

I have a hunch that those new brushes you added probably touch or intersect the ones you already had in there and thus a lot of new tiny brushes and vis areas are created which would explain the ridiculously high vis compiling time.

A good way to see how your brushes are split in the game is to use the console command:

r_drawflat 1

Please note this only works in single player mode and not in deathmatch mode.

Sometimes, just moving or sizing your brushes so they don't touch one another can avoid a lot of extra brushes. I suggest you read David Hyde's tutorial at Rust on poly count reduction methods.

www.gamedesign.net/quake2/tutorials/poly_reduction/tricks.htm

It's a must read for all mappers. It's a Quake2 tutorial but it applies to SiN just the same.

Another good trick to reduce the splitting of brushes is texture scaling.

For example, if you apply a 64 x 64 texture on a square column that's 64 x 64 in cross-section and 640 units high, the texture itself will cause QBSP to split your brush in 10 wpolys (world polygons) in the game. If you scale the texture by 2, it becomes 128 x 128 and then only splits your brush in 5 wpolys.

------------------
The Node
www.ritualistic.com/node

The official Sin entities and scripting reference site

claudec 10-12-1999 09:17 PM

Re: A question about VIS. times
 
Ok a lot of 15 sided posts in a wide open area. No way its going to work. Sorry Vis time is only your first and least problem. Your wpoly is also going to go through the roof (of course this depends on how big the area and how much stuff is in it but most likely you are going to have serious wpoly problems)

I am usually carefull not to use multisided posts in an open area. I would make them 4 sided and use a texture to give them a beam like look. I would also be carfull about how many you have in there.

If you must have more than four sides I would keep to the minimum number of sides you can (I would try 5 to see if that worked if not then I wouldn't go over 8). Don't forget you might be able to get them to look cool by finding the right texture to put on them. It might not be exactly the look you originaly wanted but you might find something that looks good anyway. This is part of making a level. You just can't always do the stuff you really want to do. You could do it anyway but then the level becomes unplayable.

I would suggest you read the doc "Poly count reduction methods" by David Hyde located at the rust site.
www.gamedesign.net/quake2/tutorials/poly_reduction/tricks.htm

Also read the thread with the subject header r_speeds initiated by tatuone in this forum.

You could also read my design philo for Nukesville II:
www.claudec.com/nuke2philo.html

(Oh my god I did it again I pimped my own level and shamelessly plugged my website )

Seriously the above reading will help you get a foundation for trying outdoor areas.

As for making the posts hollow that would probably be a bad idea as then you would have bunch of brushes all of which touch eack other and that would cause bsp to fragment them into a bunch of polies and you would get a higher wpoly count than a solid brush.

Also I could have sworn I typed something up recently within the past week or so that gave a brief overview of doing outdoor areas. I thought it was in this forum but it might have been on ICQ. Oh well if you spot it in this forum it might be a good read as well if not the other stuff I gave you will give you the info you need

Hmmm I must have read this post then went away for a while before answering it cause Eutectic hadnt posted when I first read it. I didnt realize I had been gone that long theres is ahalf an hour difference in our posts. Anyway you can see he recomended the article by David Hyde as well so you know its a must read

[This message has been edited by claudec (edited 10-12-99).]

sarumn 10-13-1999 12:17 AM

A question about VIS. times
 
I've searched the forum for the answer to this question, but there really wasn't a string that could.

First off I want to say I kind of realize how wide open spaces make vis. times longer, and have read the topic posted by claudec recently.

But my question is that I'm making an outdoor map with two buildings suspended on posts 512 units off of the ground, and when I compiled it with just the building, 8 posts, ground, and sky(the ground/sky burshes are probably 15 to 20 64x64 grid squares long and wide, and about 11 high), it only took about two hours. But when I added more posts(decorative cross beams) the vis. time shot through the roof (I mean I let it run for over 24 hous and it still wasn't done.)

So I was wondering:

1) the main posts are 15 sided solid brushes 512 units high and 64 in diamiter (the cross beams are about the same but only 32 units in diamiter, and slightly shorter.) Would decreasing the number of sided to 10 or so reduce vis time?

2) And do solid brushes take longer to vis than hollow ones? Basicaly if I hollowed the posts would my vis. time decrease?

I realize that shortening the posts would decrease time, but I'd really like to keepthem the hight they are at.

Ohh, and I forgot to mention the two rooms on the posts are 11L x 11W x 4hight (number indicate 64 x 64 grid units), with windows on all four sides.


sarumn 10-13-1999 08:50 AM

Re: A question about VIS. times
 
Thanks eutectic and claudec. Guess I tried to make the map bite off more that it could chew. Thanks for the liks too, VERY helpful. Learned alot of things about how the machiene reads brushes that I never knew.
Guess now I get to see if I can fix this map in any way or try another idea.

Thanks again guys, for getting the newbie back on track.

claudec 10-13-1999 04:43 PM

Re: A question about VIS. times
 
I have made a new observation with respect to all this. The level I mentioned in that other post (the 3 hour vis time post) was only half done at that time. It is a mirrored CTF level. The level has since been compleated structuraly which was nothing more than cloning what I had and turning it around to make the other. I started the first full vis of the structuraly compleated level last night at 3:25am as of 2:00pm today it has not comleated.

The interesting thing about this is that all I did was copy what I had in effect doubling what I already had yet the vis time more than doubled. This indicates that the relationship between increasing the number of brush surface and vis time is not linear it could be logarithmic (whatever it is mathematically its seems not to be linear)


Now of course someone who realy knew what they were doing would have to design a proper experiment to be sure. I am not quite sure what a fair experiment would be. I can't even 100% sure how tointerpret the results of my experience. However I though it was noteable enough to post here.

BTW the two areas are vis blocked from each other in case that might have anything to do with anything.

[This message has been edited by claudec (edited 10-14-99).]

claudec 10-15-1999 12:19 AM

Re: A question about VIS. times
 
Well it finaly camme in at 13 hours very close to 10 times as long.


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