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Old 09-15-2003, 03:03 AM   #6
Terrynator
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 4
Default Re: You got it wrong.

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It also shows how bad an implementation it is when it requires that many changes. That's like saying Microsoft has such good quality software and security because they have so many fixes for it. The fact is good software doesn't need that many fixes.
It doesn't require many changes. But it can fix itself if required. Far superior method to non dynamic patches that only release twice a year. Even then patches tend to require emergancy patches or introduce new bugs that won't get addressed for months. Let's stick with apples and apples here.I have trouble with some games right out of the box...Does that mean all games suck because I had a problem.
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Again that may be YOUR experience on YOUR PC. It is not mine.
But you are trying to intimate that your experience represents the majority instead of a very small minority. That happens to be fact as compaired to what your statement is trying to imply.
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Fanatics who despise cheating to the level that they do are ready to embrace anything which they think will stop it regardless of the drawbacks. I don't let the opinions of irrational teenagers determine whether something is a good idea.
Ok...sure.. and don't let the statments of a fanatic diswade anyone looking at the technology. Common Riley_Pizt....every statement you have made so far is way over the top. So who is the fanatic here? I'm beginning to see a pattern forming.
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No, they wouldn't quit because it is that blind fanaticism to the game that is why they complain so vociferously about cheating to start with. They'd continue to complain, but they would not quit playing.
You will say just about anything. The revitalization of say Q3 has been demonstrated. Now that's a fact. You obviously don't watch that the numbers have stabilized and the servers available have actually risen slightly. 2888 servers (gamespy stats page). The servers are up from a low of around 2000 just a short six months ago. Fanatic server admins??? ho'kay.
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Again that is pure speculation. The definition of cheating varies widely. Just because Punkbuster considers something as cheating does not make it actually so. And, just because Punkbuster happens to flag a user as cheating does not mean that he actually was.
What a load of nonsense. Now talk about speculating. So you actually know that as fact? I suppose the screen shots taken to go with a lot of confirmed cheaters caught by pb are just misunderstood? Where you going with this one. Is false detection what you are reaching for with this?. I'll fill you in. In the rare and I mean rare event of a false detection occurred it is posted publically within hours of first reports. There are people running servers out there that do check this stuff. Then within hours this particular detection is disabled via PB update. (99% of False detections are the result of third party software running in the background of the client while playing). False detection situations are so rare that most people don't even know it even happens out there False detections have only occurred after an update. Most people don't even know that it can even occurr as they are never exposed to it even being talked about. It's a non event or rare event Riley_Pizt. If you are talking about the normal everyday accuracy causing a false detection. I've never heard of a reported case. The detection software is not guessing. It's a machine looking for very specific things in memory or in registers etc. They are there or not. So in practice in the real world it's not a big deal. Let's not get off on theory of what's possible... Of course it's posible but then it's just splitting hairs.
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Sure it does! As a matter of fact, the more types of cheating it tries to monitor, the more intensive it becomes. It's like virus protection. The database always grows NOT shrinks and therefore scans take longer to download and run.
That is just pure bull. You obviously do not know how PB works and the limitations it puts on itself that are hardcoded to not exceed a number of cpu cycles etc.. 'scans take longer to download and run' What are you talking about.? Again you obviously don't know much about the structure of PB. It's doesn't scan like you see virus software. That is your assumption. It's significantly less aggressive than that. Similar..a little but it's like comparing a horse to a cat. They both have 4 legs but are not the same thing at all.
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The reason servers use it is because it offers a GUID ban. That could be offered WITHOUT the client-side crap. (second quote)These features could be server-side only and built into games.
You can't generate a secure guid unless it is also client side. PB is built into the game...so what does that mean. Oh you mean because pb has it's own directory you think it is not built in. Ahhh... let me explain. The only reason the structure is that way is because it's optional to run and it's not practical to recompile the main game binaries for each update. The PB software is integrated into the game. Even if you don't install it there is a substantial portion of code in the game binaries you don't see. PB couldn't work like it does if it wasn't part of the game binaries. It's why it is not sold seperately and game companies have to allow PB access to the game source. PB takes the load off of game companies from having to write and maintain their own security software. Why re-invent the wheel so to speak.
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And how many of these banned GUID's actually belong to players who did not cheat? The fact is you do not know because it is a subjective ruling.
Now you are really stretching it here. I challenge you to go out and find players that PB has recorded that didn't use a hack. Let me explain the facts of life to you for the subjective part.. that means screenshots and demo's Admins always used demos to ban cheaters PB doesn't change that in any way.. Even if a pb screenshot is used to determine cheating it is usually very easy to interperate. You must remeber.. The servers you play on don't belong to you and you are a guest. That really is the bottom line. If I just don't like your style of play you could be gone. That's just the reality of playing online. PB actually reduces the number of judgments I am required to make by detecting the most common cheats with 100% accuracy. It reduces the workload so to speak. The rest of the cheats must as always be checked manually via demos, spec'ing etc. It does though allow admins more time to just admin the servers better. Gee maybe admins will actually make fewer mistakes this way. What a thought. No not a thought... it's actually happening. Few false kicks for cheating. All admins will verify that.
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Which makes it even worse because you are trusting someone else's judgement to deny someone access to your server. Blacklisting like this has no place in civilized society including in online gaming.
HaHa... civilized society. We wouldn't have cheating or obnoxious behavior if people were civilized. And again..I can deny anybody.. It's my server and I can choose any method I like to protect it. Why do you have such a problem with that concept. There is no entitlement. The player is not in control... it's the admin/owner.
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What it really shows is that rashly discriminatory attitudes and tactics are rampant in online gaming. Trying to oreventing someone from ever playing a game online (which if you got your way would happen) for which they paid good money is unjust even if that person did engage in cheating on occasion. Playing games over the net is already an unfair and rigged contest due to differences in PC and Internet speed regardless of cheating. Having a global blacklist based on someone's arbitrary and subjective decision without a proper judicial system is grossly unfair. Also, the punishment must fit the crime even if such a judicial system existed.
Here you go again. You keep going on about entitlement fairness. But again you assume access to the server. Well that is the point isn't it. My server, not the players server. No shoes, no shirt, no service. Sound familiar.
'Judicial system'??? Nobody is going to jail here. Look.. please don't give me the school yard lawyer bit. Another piece of reallity for you.. When you buy a game check it out. There isn't any promise you can play online with it. Game companies can't promise something they don't control. They don't own the servers.
The rest of your quote is just babble... sounds nice and altruistic but babble just the same.
Before PB, all kick and bans were subjective... now fewer are. That's an improvement.

Here is the thing in all this. It's not about PB. It's about the change in the market. Admins are demanding security tools. Players want cheaters out. Game companies find it expensive to constantly release security patches to quell the complaints from their paying customers. Online security software is becoming more previlent not less. If you want to play online for free then the people that run those servers want tools like PB. The choice is pay-to-play servers and if you don't think there won't be security software against cheating on those you are dreaming. Lot's of examples already on pay servers of this.
Help protect all the good public servers out there.Support your neighbourhood admin and support dynamic PB type security before you plonk down money for a game.
Afteral making the playing field as even as possible helps you get your moneys worth..



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