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Old 01-22-2003, 08:58 AM   #1
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 2
Default new abilities for players + other suggestions

this is for CZ designers. Here are some ideas
that you guys could use.

A) New abilities for players

Breaking through windows by running into them or running +
jumping into them. Since the grenade can break windows,
players hitting the window should be able to break it too.
There could be categories of windows i.e. 1.easily breakable,
2.average, 3.unbreakable, and with the #1 type the player
could break em by "run + jump". Let's say you're running from
someone and you're out of ammo and you need to exit some
place quickly, you could simply jump through the window
instead of using your knife or selecting a loaded gun to
break the window first. The downside of not breaking it first
could be loosing health.

# 2.
Pushing an opponent. By using the same "run + jump" one
could push someone a few feet away.The purpose ? Imagine
that you sneak behind that sniper on the roof and... Boo!
you push him off. Ha! That would be great in multiplayer.
The player being pushed could be dizzy for a second or two
(i.e. the same effect as a Concussion grenade[the Scout] in
Team Fortress). And we could push an opponent through a
window too. It would be good for those who are out of ammo
and are in a desperate situation as it would give them a
chance of survival, a desperate move that could save them.

Have you thought about enabling the player to look around
the corners just like in Thief ? instead of using this camera ?
The camera could be useful to look through windows
we can't reach or seeing what's behind a door by slipping
it below that door, but when there's bullets flying it won't
be used much.

B) New items ideas

# 1.
Binoculars - in case there's no sniper rifle

# 2.
grappling hook. In single player only (i.e. infiltrating
the lair of terrorists: climbing over a wall[vertical],
getting from one roof to another[horizontal])

C) single-player missions

# 1.
Will there be a cooperative mode ? Or will the single
player campaign be truly 'single' ? Having a cooperative
mode would be nice.

# 2.
I was disappointed to read in the FAQ that we won't be
able to play the terrorists. You should consider making
an add-on that will add that possibility or let the fans
make that mod, if you have other projects to work on.

D) general ideas

# 1.
put civilians (non-hostages) in maps where it makes sense
(i.e. urban environments). It makes the task harder for
counter-terrorists (i.e. not harming any civilians in
addition to the hostages)

# 2.
A map where we are being helped by an helicopter with a
big spotlight, i.e. in a mission the terrorists are trying
to escape and there's a police helicopter hovering above
the scene and pointing its light down & shooting at the
terrorists on the roofs.

E) details/graphics

Being able to choose the polygon/detail-level in case
my machine runs slowly. A wide range of selections and
tweaks would be nice - give the choice: those with 2 GHz
can have all the details they want and those like me who
have a 500 Mhz computer can reduce the details to play
at full speed. I don't know about you guys but I don't
stare at my guns while I play, so having a polygon fiesta
isn't a priority for me.

F) Sounds

In my opinion good sounds are more important that extra
eye candy. Great sounds will create an immersive ambiance.


Finally some mission ideas:

Convert some SiN maps (i.e. the Bank)

A bomb or hostages on a cruising ship.

a shootout in Venice + a boat chase

a bomb on a battleship

save the pope from an assassination attempt
+ a shootout in the Vatican

rescue hostages in a big hotel like this one:


or this one:


evacuate a VIP from an hospital

a shootout on a train at full speed.

hector is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2003, 09:51 PM   #2
Level Designer
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Dallas Texas
Posts: 189
Default Re: new abilities for players + other suggestions

Woah I saw this post here ages ago but I never had a chance to respond to it because its sooooo huge! Hehehe
Keep in mind that even though I donít mind reading huge posts or chatting with people on the forum it is time that I could be spending doing level design instead! =P
Also keep in mind that Iím speaking for myself not all of Ritual or anyone else.

Anyway I think ill respond
#1 (keep in mind that Iím speaking for myself not all of Ritual or anyone else.)
Half life already has the ability to break windows when you run into them and such. In fact all these things you mention can be done or faked already. We donít need to make changes for this you already have them!

#2 (keep in mind that Iím speaking for myself not all of Ritual or anyone else.)
This is similar to the jump kick you can do in the action mods. What it allows you to do is hit some one for like 30 damage and knock them back a good 50 units away and yes off the roof of a building. Itís a cool idea however I could imagine it being criticized for stealing from the action community. And I donít think that jump kicking or pushing fits in the CS universe at all. It also feels really strange when you are hit and suddenly knocked off a ledge. Most of the time you donít even know what happened and you suddenly end up falling to your death. I find it frustrating most of the time. Its one of those ideas that I feel is cool sounding but after itís added all people do as soon as the match starts is kicking other players around while they attempt to buy stuff. How would you like it if you got kicked out of a buy zone by your own team mate? Also as you may know something like this would change a great deal of the core mechanics of CS and that is a bad idea in and of itself imo.

#3 (keep in mind that Iím speaking for myself not all of Ritual or anyone else.)
I like the idea of looking around corners quite a bit. Iíve have played stealth based games in the past and being able to peek around a corner always helped me so much, Though on the other hand itís not something that you can do in CS. Itís a tough call and my guess is that it wonít ever be added. In my opinion itís hard to work in these types of features so late in a projects development. It may seem like a small change however it changes the flow of game play considerably.

Im going to skip around a bit now

Cooperative mode? (keep in mind that Iím speaking for myself not all of Ritual or anyone else.)
Itís a pretty tough thing to add to an engine that is designed to have fairly small levels. Each map in half life is pretty small. Have you ever played Sven(sp?) coop before in half life? To me it was the most frustrating thing in the world because every time a guy turned a corner we would all end up level loading and god forbid we had a guy on the server who walked backwards and loaded the old level and we all had to then go back to the next level again. However than you can go and say ďWell lets make bigger levelsĒ Then you end up with maps that donít run very well and take ages to compile and you needed a cable modem to play because larger numbers of monsters took so much more bandwidth. There are too many hurdles to overcome to create a really good not frustrating coop experience on this engine. It just doesnít seem like a feasible option. Not to me anyway.

This post is HUGE.
Anyway I thought I would respond on at least some of this stuff. I donít mean to shoot your ideas down or anything. Most people wouldnít even bother to respond I imagine. So I thought I would post feedback at least what I ALONE feel about some of these ideas and maybe explain why or why not they would be added.
Castle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2003, 08:34 PM   #3
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 2
Default Re: new abilities for players + other suggestions

Looking around corners shouldn't be that hard to do in CS/HL,
it's simply a 'viewscreen trick'. In Thief the player doesn't move
when he looks around corners, only the screen does. I know
in a multiplayer game it would be somewhat of a cheat not to
be noticed when you look around the corner but it would still
be fair since everyone could do it. I think those kind of little
things generally fits the CS gameplay since players have to
be careful when they advance, they have to use stealth
sometimes, etc. so looking around corners would be a
helpful ability in those kind of situations.

the cooperative mode: its just that it would be cool to play
with friends on a network in the single player missions. If
for example the Counter-terrorist team for Mission 1 Map 3
has 4 members, two of them could be humans and the
others bots, but with only one of the two humans giving
orders to your AI comrades. I wasn't talking about adding
more players than the maps were designed to support, but
simply to replace a bot in the CT team by a human player.
With humans we could experiment all sorts of different
strategies to finish a map. But presumably with bots, the
possibilities would be limited, i.e. we won't be able to tell
them "go hide behind that barrel and when the shooting
starts, throw a smoke grenade, then try to go around the
area and surprise the enemy from behind". Or perhaps I am
mistaken about the kind of brains the bots will have ?

I still think the 'knock your opponent off the roof' thing would
be great. And it would only be used as a last resort because
of the risk involved in that move,i.e. since you can only push
someone when you're close to him, chances are you're going
to be seen before and be shot on the spot. So I don't think
it would change the gameplay that much. Perhaps the beta
testers should try these things out and see how they fit in CS.

hector is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2003, 10:17 PM   #4
Level Designer
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Dallas Texas
Posts: 189
Default Re: new abilities for players + other suggestions

Bots? what what?

(Keep in mind that I am only speaking about the concept of COOP mod on a half life style 3d engine and my opinions donít necessarily reflect that of ThE ReSt oF HuMaNiTY!!!!)

Yes you are right that it would be cool in my opinion. However in concept the main issue isnít whether or not if it would be cool but rather the size of the levels vs bandwidth vs engine limitations. Yeah it would be cool but you might not realize that the maps in half life tend to be much smaller chunks than what you would find in many other game engines. If you play COOP in half life when ever your buddy walks down a hallway all of you will be forced to load the next level. Itís not like doom or Serious Sam where the levels are actually full levels and the ending is well defined with a switch or an end boss. Take a look at half life and notice that all the levels are blended together by using nearly seamless level loading triggers. There was never one level that defined an entire section of half life but rather many smaller pieces that are fitted together to create a very effective illusion of a continuous world. So right away in concept you are hit with a very real limitation that is by no means easily overcome.

Another thing to keep in mind is that even though a feature may seem simple in concept to pull off like leaning around corners you are immediately going to find that what you might think of as a small change will soon snowball. I the game design world itís commonly known as feature creep. So yes in theory being able to make the player able to lean around corners would be simple, However once that was added in then some one will say. Well we are going to need to make sure that there is animations to go with the leaning otherwise people can exploit this to see around corners with no risk to themselves. Then some one else yells out well if we are going to do that we need all the bad guys to do it too or something like that. And by all means all these new features that crop up to accommodate one new thing are usually always justifiable or even necessary.
So as you might see that little feature isnít so little anymore. When ever you think about a new feature you need to think about it as a whole package as well.
Castle is offline   Reply With Quote

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