Ritualistic Forums

Go Back   Ritualistic Forums > Ritual Entertainment Games > SiN, SiN Steam & Wages of Sin

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-15-2004, 09:56 AM   #1
Icculus LoK
Fanatic
 
Icculus LoK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 1,921
Default Well its time to move on.

The petition failed. It was my fault in part i guess cause they claim i never gave my real name. I wasnt aware i had to and i never recieved a e-mail about it though they claim they sent it. At this point im getting no responses from the support, even though they claimed they would put it back up.

So at this point i think we should just move on and start over. I know it sucks and i know we lost alot of sig's that wont re-sign im sure, but its all i can think of.

So this time instead of acting on impulse and just posting, i figured i would give everyone a chance to input.

Here is a copy of the petition i setup.


To: Gaming Industry
A call to arms my brothers and sisters of the gaming community.

I am starting a petition on behalf of the Ritual team in hopes that we can
help our favorite gaming company gain publisher support.

Sin was a game that came out in 1998 and had a strong and devoted following
that many to this day, myself included, still play. It is a game from a
company that still has one thing that many people in the gaming industry
have lost... A fun mentality. Sure, the game has good physics, great weapons
that are balanced, and pretty great graphics for its time, but it was the
twisted humor and devotion to fun that made this game what it was and
defined Ritual as a company.

Now Ritual has Sin 2 in the works and actually have a demo in the works.
Please click the following link for the few images available.
http://www.ritualistic.com/screens.php/sin2/Sin+II/

The problem is they are unable to pick up publishing support. They assume
that Sin 2 would not be a profitable product for them. So after some debate
on how the Sin community can help, the idea of a petition has come to the
table and here it is.

We ask of you that as gamers yourselves, that you voice your support for
this product. We made a Sin 2 petition years ago and thousands of people
signed it with good replies. I wouldn't be surprised if it was in part why
there is a Sin 2 demo right now. But now it is time to show these publishers
the money they are missing out on. Time to stand up and make a difference
and it will only take a few moments of your time to sign this petition, but
those few minutes have the chance to make such a big change and have the
potential of making a ton of gamers, just like yourselves, very very happy.

Power is not in money or in words. Power is the will of the people. It is
the flesh hammer that is you and me that can pound through anything we want
if we band together.

Thank you for the time you took to read this and I please urge you to send
it to everyone you know and show your support, show that you will be a
paying customer for this game. Have no doubt, I have personally seen this
work before. I have seen TV shows saved from going off the air with this
method. I do not feel your efforts will be in vain this time either.

Thank you.

Sincerely,



If you want anything added or removed or think its fine, ill re-submit it making SURE that my real name is on here so it wont get screwed up again.

I await your replies.
Icculus LoK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2004, 10:21 AM   #2
Grandpapa
Fanatic
 
Grandpapa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Northern side of the earth.
Posts: 2,181
Default Re: Well its time to move on.

I think it's great.
Grandpapa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2004, 11:36 AM   #3
STATIC3D
Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Posts: 1,087
Default Re: Well its time to move on.

Hey guyz, I realize that we are passionate about SiN 2. But, we have to focus on some things that may make a publisher more likely to take notice. Just being excited about SiN 2 is great, H3LL knows I am [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img], but, publishers (obviously) think differently than we gamers do.

Therefore, we have to sort of speak more their language in order to get their attention. I signed the original petition, and will do so with any other SiN 2 petition that comes out. But, I decided to revamp the petition into something that "may" be of a bit more interest to a publisher.

This is not to say there is anything wrong with the original petition, or the latest version. It's just that I think publishers are so focused on the "bottom line" type of thinking, that we need to focus more on that area too.

If publishers thought like we did, there already would have been a SiN 2. Since there has not been, then we need to think more like them in an attempt to "hook" them.

So, here's my version of a petition for SiN 2. Use some of it, none of it, alter it, whatever you want. I'm just trying to do my small part to help out. :}

**********

To: Gamers and Game Publishers

This petition is being started in hopes that the signatures will help Ritual be able to gain publisher support for the developement of SiN 2.

SiN was released in 1998 for the PC. Unfortunately, Activision forced the release of the game before it was ready in order to beat Half-Life to store shelves. Due to the bugs in SiN, it gained a stigma of being a "bad game". A patch was released shortly after the game came out that resolved the problems. However, due to the initial bad press (negative reviews) many people failed to purchase SiN.

For those that did purchase SiN, many who did so based upon the fun they had playing the demo, it was one of the best gaming experiences ever. SiN included many gameplay features and elements that had never been seen before, many of which have been used in games since. Ritual has continued to produce high quality work in their titles created since the release of SiN.

SiN had a strong and devoted following of fans, many of whom still play the game to this day. The world of SiN was rich enough to garner the creation of both the Wages of SiN addon pack, developed by 2015, and a DVD anime movie, produced by ADV films. For years, many fans of SiN have hoped there would be an opportunity to play a sequal to SiN.

Unfortunately, as of the creation of this petition, Ritual has been unable to gain publisher support for the development of SiN 2. Ritual has created a develoment demo for SiN 2. Please click the following link for some in-game screenshots of the main characters, Blade and Elexis.
http://www.ritualistic.com/screens.php/sin2/Sin+II/

We, the undersigned, are showing our support for SiN 2 in hopes that a publisher will recognize the opportunity to profit from the experience of Ritual, and, a devoted fan base willing to spread the news of SiN 2 via word of mouth (and keyboard), as well as our with our hard earned money.

Thank you for the time you took to read this petition. I urge you to send it to everyone you know to show your support. Show that you will be a paying customer for SiN 2.
STATIC3D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2004, 01:02 PM   #4
badman
Sheep Inspector
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: London, UK
Posts: 4,247
Send a message via ICQ to badman Send a message via AIM to badman Send a message via MSN to badman
Default Re: Well its time to move on.

Might wanna mention that Sin - The Movie was the best selling video in the US for 10 consecutive weeks.
badman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2004, 01:57 PM   #5
BrushBaron
Level Designer
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,457
Default Re: Well its time to move on.

OK, here's my slightly modified version:

I added more facts to back up the statements. People like to see statements backed up with factual information to ensure it's the truth. For the quotes part, I need better quotes so that's your job, find the reviews that were praising SiN2 and we'll decide which ones to put in the petition.

For the game elements that SiN was the first to do, make sure those are correct and add more if I missed any.

To: Gamers and Game Publishers

This petition is being started in hopes that the signatures will help Ritual be able to gain publisher support for the development of SiN 2.

SiN was released in 1998 for the PC. Unfortunately, due to publisher pressure the game was released before it was ready in order to beat Half-Life to store shelves. Due to the bugs in SiN, it gained a stigma of being a "bad game". A patch was released shortly after the game came out that resolved the problems. However, due to the initial bad press (negative reviews) many people failed to purchase SiN.

For those that did purchase SiN, many who did so based upon the fun they had playing the demo, it was one of the best gaming experiences ever. Many reviewers critically acclaimed the game saying, “The Holy Grail of Computerdom has arrived!” (www.gamesdomain.com), “Through solid level design, a twisted sense of humor, familiar weapons, interactivity and near-perfect netplay SiN raises the bar for its competition...” (www.shakyextreme.com). SiN included many gameplay features and elements that had never been seen before, many of which have been used in games since.
1. Zoom on Sniper Rifles
2. Multiple gameplay paths
3. Sidekick characters that complement the hero
4. Computer terminals to use

Ritual has continued to produce high quality work in their titles created since the release of SiN, such as Heavy Metal: FAKK2, Star Trek: Elite Force 2, Counter Strike Xbox and Black Hawk Down: Team Sabre.

SiN had a strong and devoted following of fans, many of whom still play the game to this day. The world of SiN was rich enough to garner the creation of both the Wages of SiN addon pack, developed by 2015, and a DVD anime movie, produced by ADV films, which was on the best seller list in the US for 10 consecutive weeks. For years, many fans of SiN have hoped there would be an opportunity to play a sequal to SiN.

Unfortunately, as of the creation of this petition, Ritual has been unable to gain publisher support for the development of SiN 2. Ritual has created a development demo for SiN 2. Please click the following link for some in-game screenshots of the main characters, Blade and Elexis.
http://www.ritualistic.com/screens.php/sin2/Sin+II/

We, the undersigned, are showing our support for SiN 2 in hopes that a publisher will recognize the opportunity to profit from the experience of Ritual, and, a devoted fan base willing to spread the news of SiN 2 via word of mouth (and keyboard), as well as our with our hard earned money.

Thank you for the time you took to read this petition. I urge you to send it to everyone you know to show your support. Show that you will be a paying customer for SiN 2.
BrushBaron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2004, 01:57 PM   #6
STATIC3D
Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Posts: 1,087
Default Re: Well its time to move on.

Edited:
I forgot it was also available on VHS...DOH!

To: Gamers and Game Publishers

This petition is being started in hopes that the signatures will help Ritual be able to gain publisher support for the developement of SiN 2.

SiN was released in 1998 for the PC. Unfortunately, Activision forced the release of the game before it was ready in order to beat Half-Life to store shelves. Due to the bugs in SiN, it gained a stigma of being a "bad game". A patch was released shortly after the game came out that resolved the problems. However, due to the initial bad press (negative reviews) many people failed to purchase SiN.

For those that did purchase SiN, many who did so based upon the fun they had playing the demo, it was one of the best gaming experiences ever. Many reviewers critically acclaimed the game saying, “The Holy Grail of Computerdom has arrived!” (www.gamesdomain.com), “Through solid level design, a twisted sense of humor, familiar weapons, interactivity and near-perfect netplay SiN raises the bar for its competition...” (www.shakyextreme.com). SiN included many gameplay features and elements that had never been seen before, many of which have been used in games since.
1. Zoom on Sniper Rifles
2. Multiple gameplay paths
3. Sidekick characters that complement the hero
4. Computer terminals to use
5. Character Regional damage (head, chest/arm, leg shots do different amounts of damage)
6. Damage skins (characters show damage when shot)

Ritual has continued to produce high quality work in their titles created since the release of SiN, such as Heavy Metal: FAKK2, Star Trek: Elite Force 2, Counter Strike Xbox and Black Hawk Down: Team Sabre.

SiN had a strong and devoted following of fans, many of whom still play the game to this day. The world of SiN was rich enough to garner the creation of both the Wages of SiN addon pack, developed by 2015, and an anime movie on DVD and VHS, produced by ADV films, which was on the best seller list in the U.S. for 10 consecutive weeks. For years, many fans of SiN have hoped there would be an opportunity to play a sequal to SiN.

Unfortunately, as of the creation of this petition, Ritual has been unable to gain publisher support for the development of SiN 2. Ritual has created a develoment demo for SiN 2. Please click the following link for some in-game screenshots of the main characters, Blade and Elexis. http://www.ritualistic.com/screens.php/sin2/Sin+II/

We, the undersigned, are showing our support for SiN 2 in hopes that a publisher will recognize the opportunity to profit from the experience of Ritual, and, a devoted fan base willing to spread the news of SiN 2 via word of mouth (and keyboard), as well as our with our hard earned money.

Thank you for the time you took to read this petition. I urge you to send it to everyone you know to show your support. Show that you will be a paying customer for SiN 2.

PS: www.sinthemovie.com site is down.
STATIC3D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2004, 03:36 PM   #7
Icculus LoK
Fanatic
 
Icculus LoK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 1,921
Default Re: Well its time to move on.

We are sure ritual was first with regional damage and damage skins?

Just wanna make sure our facts are rock solid.
Icculus LoK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2004, 04:25 PM   #8
emlnxrh
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 19
Default Re: Well its time to move on.

Well in terms of PC games for region base damage but goldeneye 007 for n64 did it in 1997 just thought I would bring this to your attention.
emlnxrh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2004, 04:45 PM   #9
STATIC3D
Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Posts: 1,087
Default Re: Well its time to move on.

According to these, GE 007 wasn't released until Nov 1999...
http://www.boondocksnet.com/cb/apfh-...locale-us.html
http://www.macronin.com/store/comput...locale-us.html
http://www.buygamescheap.com/related...B00000DMAT.php

In terms or regional damage, I'm pretty sure SiN was the first PC game to include it (unless you count the ability to target the parts of a mech in the original Mechwarrior on 5 1/4" floppys...lol).

I remember that's one of the reasons so many SiN players did better than Quake players in the early days of UT (which used positional damage as well). SiN players were used to making their shots count in terms of aiming at the areas where the most damage would be done. On the other hand, Quake II players were used to the "hit anywhere do equal damage" model of gameplay.

If we want to take some of the stuff off the list that's kul with me. I don't think we need to list "every" feature about the game. Just listing some of the more interesting/innovative ones should be enuff.
STATIC3D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2004, 06:06 PM   #10
JezzyBall
Community Moderator
 
JezzyBall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Madtown, Wisconsin
Posts: 955
Send a message via MSN to JezzyBall
Default Re: Well its time to move on.

I think things are looking good. On a parallel path we need to see and begin making a list of sites and forums that we can get to support and advertise the petition. Remember we already have had over 3K on the link from the front page here at Rit. We will need to overcome the fact that many may say "Already signed that".

We need to ensure we show buying power and create buzz.

That being said I think there is still an opportunity to get some of the Sin2 photogrpahs that we've seen and send that along with the link to the petition as a bit of a press release.

Now-forgive me for asking-but is there a way to get some fresh demo shots that we can send out to help the efforts. If we blast them out with the new petition along with maybe a link to the old demo and some links to where Sin & Wages of Sin can be purchased today (as well as the 1.0 to 1.11 patch) and a Multiplayer Server to advertise -then I think we'd have a good PR package-No?



Baddy- do yu have a comprehensive list of the Gaming news sites that you may have as normal contacts to get us started in creating a list?

Whaddya all think let's start talking through a Marketing/PR plan...
JezzyBall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2004, 07:07 PM   #11
Icculus LoK
Fanatic
 
Icculus LoK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 1,921
Default Re: Well its time to move on.

Here is a though. Maybe we can get soem places to show support and put them in the petition. Like Bluesnews.

" This petition is supported by Bluesnews, Alan Willard ( lead programer of unreal and UT ), etc, etc.

?
Icculus LoK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2004, 08:04 PM   #12
emlnxrh
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 19
Default Re: Well its time to move on.

Maybe in asia it was but I just turned on my n64 and it said 1997 nintendo/rare dont get me wrong Sin is my favorite game ever but I just wanted to point out the fact that in terms of games as a whole it wasnt the first to do so but hey this is a pc game forum im not trying to start a console gamer vs pc gamer flame war.
emlnxrh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2004, 08:04 PM   #13
STATIC3D
Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Posts: 1,087
Default Re: Well its time to move on.

Don't forget to add the names of the Rit guyz on there...hehe. :}
STATIC3D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2004, 08:06 PM   #14
emlnxrh
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 19
Default Re: Well its time to move on.

You got my support in all this keep up the good work.
emlnxrh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2004, 11:04 PM   #15
Megazoid
Newbie
 
Megazoid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 6
Default Re: Well its time to move on.

I signed the last one, I'd sure sign another one.

If you want to get sigs though, you got to pimp. People need to know about the petition to sign it. That means pimping in other forums, pestering (nicely) major gaming sites, getting it out there.

Also, it's a bizarre idea, but what about paying for development. I don't know how it would work... some kind of shares scheme maybe? If you honestly believe Sin2 would be a hit AND make a buck, then put your money where your mouth is... Set up a scheme where fans can buy shares in the finished game. If the game is a hit, you get a small profit (and of course Sin2), if it bombs, you get jack! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
Megazoid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2004, 12:16 AM   #16
STATIC3D
Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Posts: 1,087
Default Re: Well its time to move on.

Quote:
...if it bombs, you get jack!
What more could you want than a copy of SiN 2?

Think of it like this, if everyone that would be willing to pay $40 - $50 for the game on store shelves would put that much into a "SiN 2 fund", there should be enough to get something done worth having paid that much for...am I right? :}
STATIC3D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2004, 01:17 PM   #17
JezzyBall
Community Moderator
 
JezzyBall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Madtown, Wisconsin
Posts: 955
Send a message via MSN to JezzyBall
Default Re: Well its time to move on.

So are we done? Is this the extent you guys are willing to go?

I am cafting a PR to send to sites. I need comprehensive lists of all sites and submission e-mail addresses to send them to. Contacts by name would be cool too.

Lets get the final petition hosted. It would be cool if Rit guys and some of the core group could sign first and give us some good quotes for the PR.

Do we have a link or host we could post the demo for Sin?

Do we have links where we could post where to buy SiN and WOS?

Patch is here so that's cool.

Help? Willing? Drop it?
JezzyBall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2004, 02:04 PM   #18
Mr_DJ
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Denmark
Posts: 4
Default Re: Well its time to move on.

Quote:
Hey guyz, I realize that we are passionate about SiN 2. But, we have to focus on some things that may make a publisher more likely to take notice. Just being excited about SiN 2 is great, H3LL knows I am [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img], but, publishers (obviously) think differently than we gamers do.

Therefore, we have to sort of speak more their language in order to get their attention. I signed the original petition, and will do so with any other SiN 2 petition that comes out. But, I decided to revamp the petition into something that "may" be of a bit more interest to a publisher.

This is not to say there is anything wrong with the original petition, or the latest version. It's just that I think publishers are so focused on the "bottom line" type of thinking, that we need to focus more on that area too.

If publishers thought like we did, there already would have been a SiN 2. Since there has not been, then we need to think more like them in an attempt to "hook" them.
I agree with you on that!

We have to put ourselves in their position and think, "What arguments could convince US to spend millions of dollars on a PC game".
We have to take into consideration that the fps genre is a risky one.
There is already coming multiples AAA titles this year: Doom3, Half-Life2, Far Cry, S.T.A.L.K.E.R, and maybe even Duke Nukem Forever.
So the competition highens and the developers has to convince the publishers that their new game is competitive with these titles. And the fact that the first Sin didn't do too well(cash income wise), is not something that appeals.

I enjoyed the first Sin very much too and would also very much like a Sin2 to be made. The first had the same feel as Duke Nukem 3D(compliment). That means a hero with an attitude, funny (idea rich, non-repetitive) interaktive levels, up-to-date graphics and babes.
I miss these features in todays games.

I only found out about Sin2 recently, because I during a google search (can't remember what i searched for) noticed a link to this petition page: http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?sin2
Which I signed imidiately [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Then I heared of the 2 pictures and here I am.

So I'm new to this board [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Mr_DJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2004, 03:05 PM   #19
Grandpapa
Fanatic
 
Grandpapa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Northern side of the earth.
Posts: 2,181
Default Re: Well its time to move on.

Welcome to board then [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
Grandpapa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2004, 03:10 PM   #20
Mr_DJ
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Denmark
Posts: 4
Default Re: Well its time to move on.

Thanks mate! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Mr_DJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2004, 04:23 PM   #21
Mr_DJ
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Denmark
Posts: 4
Default Re: Well its time to move on.

Thought about it some more.
Make a petition where we incourage people to sign because their vote is worth money.
This you explain by saying that the project needs a publisher, and a publisher thinks like this: 5 thousind votes is potientially: 5k * 50$= 250.000 dollars worth of pre-sold copies.
So in this respect, more votes is more potientially buyers and again more money.
Mr_DJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2004, 02:25 AM   #22
ninken
Fanboy
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Springfield, OH
Posts: 738
Default Re: Well its time to move on -not me

Hey do you think we can setup a paypal to ritual, we will ask everyone to donate money to make the game! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]
ninken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2004, 10:08 AM   #23
Icculus LoK
Fanatic
 
Icculus LoK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 1,921
Default Re: Well its time to move on.

Quote:
Thought about it some more.
Make a petition where we incourage people to sign because their vote is worth money.
This you explain by saying that the project needs a publisher, and a publisher thinks like this: 5 thousind votes is potientially: 5k * 50$= 250.000 dollars worth of pre-sold copies.
So in this respect, more votes is more potientially buyers and again more money.
Thats the point of the petition bud
Icculus LoK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2004, 10:53 AM   #24
Mr_DJ
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Denmark
Posts: 4
Default Re: Well its time to move on.

Icculus LoK said:
Quote:
Thats the point of the petition bud
Yes I know, but I don't think that everybody who read it thinks that way.

Remember people of all ages play games, and I don't think kids(target group)thinks this way. So my idea was to explain the publisher problem and add something like this, at the bottom of the petition: So tell all your friends about Sin2, because every vote counts, yours too!! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Then we might reach some more people who could spread the word and we could maybe get like 50 thousind votes(or more).

Of course we need some info (propaganda)about the game, to make people who haven't even heard of Sin, but do like FPS games, see why Sin 2 should be made.
Mr_DJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.