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Old 02-10-2004, 06:55 PM   #26
Rusty_le_Cyborg
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Default Re: CSX file formats??? Help please...

Hmm..it would be good. The way in CSX appears to be only one models each for T, CT and Hossie.

I guess it makes it simpler to code too....though I'm guessing.

Ho hum...we shall have to see what the real CZ is like in a few weeks (finger's crossed!)

Cheers for now
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Old 02-19-2004, 06:14 PM   #27
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Default Re: CSX file formats??? Help please...

I should check out ritualistic more often. I could have cleared up a lot of this and saved you some time.

You won't be able to get anything useful out of the CSX assets. Here's why:

.sxwad was a format developed specifically for CSX (it's not part of the xbox XDK) to facilitate fast, streaming, threaded level loads from the DVD. The compression format is unique to CSX, so there's not a decompressor around (except the CSX binary).

Models in CSX are a different format (optimized for xbox - the PC half-life model format is pretty crappy because it stores euler rotations for all bones instead of the optimized quaternions that the CSX version uses) and the model format changed enough by the end of the project that you can't decompile it with PC tools.

The textures are not stored in the model files (well, they are, but those are the old crappy 8-bit PC counter-strike textures which are never loaded by the engine) but in separate 32-bit resource bundles that are embedded in the sxwad. again, the resource bundles are substantially different from the ones generated by the bundling tool that ships with xbox XDK (we needed added functionality so we ended up writing our own exporter).

the BSP format has also changed, because we don't keep visibility information; on xbox it's cheaper to render the entire level every frame from a static pushbuffer instead of figuring out which components to render. so the bsp format is changed to be pushbuffer friendly and wouldn't be useful on the PC anyway.

the sounds are in fact in xact soundbank and wavebanks. AFAIK you can't get the sound effects *out* of a wavebank, only compile new ones from source art and the xact main project file (which didn't ship with the game).

So there's no use for the sounds, textures, models, or BSP in the game, if you could decompress and extract the contents of the sxwad (which you can't).

You're better off using whatever assets leaked from the PC game.

To not end on a total down note, a couple silly easter eggs:

change your profile name to

!!UNDONE!!

or

PlumRugOfDoom

(friends suggested I put the second one in back during a purple hair stint I had -- it only makes a difference on de_prodigy)

Joe
Sigh. I need to change my signature I guess, since I've been at Monolith for almost 3 months now
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Old 02-19-2004, 06:39 PM   #28
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Default Re: CSX file formats??? Help please...

Wow, that was nice of you to clue us in, and save someone some trouble.
Just out of curiosity, was it just you and chris who moved to monolith, and why? (can't ask the cool question: what are you working on, because chris already said you guys can't say). If you don't want to answer it its cool, like I said just curious (nothing much going on around here as you can see).
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Old 02-19-2004, 08:41 PM   #29
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Default Re: CSX file formats??? Help please...

Hey thanks a lot Joe!!!

Not to worry. It's nice to know that it can't be done at least :-)

The skins etc from the leaks seem to be quite prolific now and as soon as CZ ships I'll be poking around it I guess...

I have another question for you though... because each "mission" only has one CT, T and H combination does it mean that the engine has been adapted somewhat to get away from the choosing of various CTs and Ts?

BTW - Nice little Easter Eggs!!! Any more interesting ones???
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Old 02-19-2004, 11:07 PM   #30
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Default Re: CSX file formats??? Help please...

Quote:

I have another question for you though... because each "mission" only has one CT, T and H combination does it mean that the engine has been adapted somewhat to get away from the choosing of various CTs and Ts?

There were three reasons for choosing a single CT, T, and H combo for each mission.

One is memory; the skin, bone, animation, and texture data for each model is very memory intensive.

The second is team recognition. The most frustrating thing for new players in PC CS is the wide choice of player looks in the game that are all available at any time. It makes it very difficult to tell whether somebody's a friend or enemy. So we specifically chose player T and CT models on a per-level basis that had drastically different texture and model silhouettes so new players could tell quickly who was on what team.

The third reason was to show off a bunch more of the sweet ritual models & textures than we'd be able to if we had a total of 8 or 10 character skins available in the game (CSX has what, 28? something like that, I can't remember)
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Old 02-24-2004, 11:16 AM   #31
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Default Re: CSX file formats??? Help please...

I really want the spetznaz models to use in cs 1.6
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Old 03-03-2004, 09:30 AM   #32
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Default Re: CSX file formats??? Help please...

Okay Joe firstly thanks for such an informative reply to the model questions but (!) I've been musing over a new question for you :-)

Seeing as Inferno and Office were not strictly "exclusive content downloads" as Microsoft seems to think and were only "activated" in some way via a small patch or whatever....does this mean that there will be no more map/model downloads possible for CSX?

I think it is limited somewhat because each sxwad is around 50 megs, though not a problem for broadband/cable users is still a bit of a problem storage wise.

I'd be interested to know, though MS might not like the answer to be made public..... :-)

Cheers for now

PS - If you would like to PM me with a development kit, I'd be much obliged!! J/K!!!
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Old 03-03-2004, 04:29 PM   #33
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Default Re: CSX file formats??? Help please...

Sorry, I'm not Joe. But I think everyone knows what you're talking about. M$ is just pulling everyone's leg to get live. The CSX team put in work, got it done and thats it. No more models or maps sorry. Those "exclusive downloads" are all your gonna see.
Ofcourse, I'm no dev, and I'm sure you wan't "Joe" to respond. But here's your answer anyway.
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Old 03-05-2004, 08:04 PM   #34
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Default Re: CSX file formats??? Help please...

Hi Automator

I figured as much, but was just wondering if there was any "official" word.

I'd still like to know if there are any more Easter Eggs too!! Those others were a fun "exclusive" for the forum...

Cheers for now
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Old 03-06-2004, 12:46 AM   #35
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Default Re: CSX file formats??? Help please...

Quote:

Seeing as Inferno and Office were not strictly "exclusive content downloads" as Microsoft seems to think and were only "activated" in some way via a small patch or whatever....does this mean that there will be no more map/model downloads possible for CSX?

OK so I'll qualify a couple things right now: the proposal to put the two unlockable missions on the DVD was *mine*, not Microsoft's, ie they didn't push that down our throat. Each extra content download package requires a separate pass through certification, which is a) a pain in the ass for developers b) a lot of extra time for developers (our first cert approach for the release SKU was a 72-hour non-sleeping stretch, which I never want to repeat on a project ever) and c) costs Microsoft about $10k per cert submission to get properly tested. Each content download package has to be tested for each territory localized, and if *any* territory fails, the entire package has to be resubmitted.

The guys who I used to work with at Nerve told me they had good success with their first unlockable Wolfenstein content pack being on the DVD, so I wanted to go that way because our schedule was just too tight to do anything else. Microsoft was very cool and supportive in that decision.

That all said, we engineered the content download system so that in order to add new downloadable content, all that's required is an additional sxwad, additional xact audio content (if there's level-specific audio), an additional xpr pack, and a new UI file that exposes the additional levels. Well, and some modifications to the xbox live support stuff to do proper matchmaking.

At this point, Ritual isn't in control of what might or might not go into any expansion. Really, neither is Microsoft; it's all on Valve's shoulders. If they decided they wanted to support the xbox community and release more missions, they could. I don't know how likely that is (I don't know if they have any xbox development hardware in-house at Valve now or not, or any engineers that know how to program xbox stuff if they need any game-side changes). I know that CSX has gone pretty far over initial MS sales predictions, but I don't know if it's matched Valve's internal predictions or not, which is probably what would determine whether or not they want to put more money and resources into supporting an already shipped product.

Quote:

I think it is limited somewhat because each sxwad is around 50 megs, though not a problem for broadband/cable users is still a bit of a problem storage wise.

I don't think that's necessarily the case. The only time that becomes a problem is if *all* the title persistent storage space on the drive is used, and then the xbox starts deleting (non subscription) content based on the least recently played game.

I don't think it's out of the question for more content to show up; it's certianly not technically difficult (other than generating the content and going through the certification process on the levels, artwork, etc), and I have no idea if the interest is there from Valve to do it or not (Valve is 100% responsible for any additional content at this point).

Hope that helps...

Joe
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Old 03-06-2004, 07:20 AM   #36
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Default Re: CSX file formats??? Help please...

Don't take this as an insult but just for future reference. I posted this a while ago:
Quote:
The funniest thing was that when I got xbox live I went to download "new" content. I downloaded office and inferno. And what do you know, both maps were only 4 blocks each. Wow and they have loading screens, and the bots know the maps. And hey didn't ritual finish the game months ago. MS makes it so that you need a credit card, and you have to be a certain age to set up an account, then they think little kids are playing that cant tell the difference between mechassault maps taking 2 minutes to download, and counter-strike's taking 2 seconds. I heard they did the same thing with RTCW. What a gimmick. They make you get xbox live just to unlock content on the cd that should already be in the game.

I understand your explanation, and how it helps all parties with money and testing and all that. I just feel that it insulted my intelligence, and I felt ripped off. I was only planning on renting it and didn't have live for the first few days. I really missed office and inferno. It pissed me off to find out they were on the dvd and you guys/microsoft/whoever tried to pull a fast one on me.

So just for future reference, you know.
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Old 03-06-2004, 09:49 AM   #37
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Default Re: CSX file formats??? Help please...

Quote:
That all said, we engineered the content download system so that in order to add new downloadable content, all that's required is an additional sxwad, additional xact audio content (if there's level-specific audio), an additional xpr pack, and a new UI file that exposes the additional levels. Well, and some modifications to the xbox live support stuff to do proper matchmaking.
Thanks for the explanation Joe. I understand the reasoning behind "hiding" the new content, but I suppose it's unlikely that we will see new official stuff.

That said. I presume then that it's not impossible for people to add their own levels as they seem to be doing with Halo for the Xbox (might I add... in a BIG way!!)

Of course, this would need some kind of modded machine and probably excludes you from Live etc... but it seems entirely possible.

Cheers for now

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Old 03-06-2004, 08:53 PM   #38
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Default Re: CSX file formats??? Help please...

Quote:

That said. I presume then that it's not impossible for people to add their own levels as they seem to be doing with Halo for the Xbox (might I add... in a BIG way!!)

Of course, this would need some kind of modded machine and probably excludes you from Live etc... but it seems entirely possible.

Possible yes, but non-trivial. There are three (well, two and a half) unreleased tools required to generate additional content. 1) the sxwad packer 2) the texture XPR bundler and 3) the debug version of CSX. The latter component isn't entirely necessary, but really *really* helpful -- the CSX debug binary is capable of generating Resource Definition Files (.rdf) which are header files used by the offline resource bundler to build the run-time .xpr file. Generating RDF files by hand is possible, but totally unpleasant to do for anything on the scale of a full level's worth of textures. The second thing the CSX debug binary has is filesystem instrumentation for building sxwads; without this, you'd have to hand-generate the sxwad file as well, which is even harder to do properly than the .rdf file.

AFAIK there are no plans to release any of these tools. Somebody might be able to reverse engineer the compression and header formats used for these, build a level, hand-generate .rdf files and build .xprs, but hand-generating an sxwad file is next to impossible without the filesystem instrumentation from the debug binary. Which can't be shipped Valve, Ritual, or Microsoft for obvious reasons (it isn't certified, it would introduce all sorts of security problems, it would make cheating possible, etc etc).

So it's *extremely* unlikely -- even with a modded xbox -- that you'll ever see non-blessed additional content.

Joe
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Old 03-08-2004, 08:49 PM   #39
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Default Re: CSX file formats??? Help please...

Oh well. It's certainly a pity. I'd love to be able to add a few levels to play, even if it is against the bots. I suppose I will have to wait another few weeks for the official CS:CZ and see how that stacks up....

So Joe....no more Easter Eggs???

Cheers for now
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Old 11-03-2004, 07:37 PM   #40
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Default ok ive figured some useful information out!!

i took one of the files i think it was cs_havana.SXWad and opened it with hex editor. i could see directories like D:\maps\cs_havana.bsp and gun models and everything. i tried to change the dir to F:\Games\CounterStrike\Maps\Deagle_Map.bsp because i added the directories and stuff, i took this map from cs pc and put it in the dir i changed it to F:\Games\CounterStrike\Maps\Deagle_Map.bsp and saved everything and put in havana back in the cs folder and when i try to load the bar just stops i have no clue what im doing wrong but if someway you could change the textures and theres even a texture directory so if u could do something like that it would be awesome.
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Old 06-22-2005, 07:43 PM   #41
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Default Re: CSX file formats??? Help please...

Quote:
Originally posted by gunfu:
Possible yes, but non-trivial. There are three (well, two and a half) unreleased tools required to generate additional content. 1) the sxwad packer 2) the texture XPR bundler and 3) the debug version of CSX. The latter component isn't entirely necessary, but really *really* helpful -- the CSX debug binary is capable of generating Resource Definition Files (.rdf) which are header files used by the offline resource bundler to build the run-time .xpr file. Generating RDF files by hand is possible, but totally unpleasant to do for anything on the scale of a full level's worth of textures. The second thing the CSX debug binary has is filesystem instrumentation for building sxwads; without this, you'd have to hand-generate the sxwad file as well, which is even harder to do properly than the .rdf file.

AFAIK there are no plans to release any of these tools. Somebody might be able to reverse engineer the compression and header formats used for these, build a level, hand-generate .rdf files and build .xprs, but hand-generating an sxwad file is next to impossible without the filesystem instrumentation from the debug binary. Which can't be shipped Valve, Ritual, or Microsoft for obvious reasons (it isn't certified, it would introduce all sorts of security problems, it would make cheating possible, etc etc).

So it's *extremely* unlikely -- even with a modded xbox -- that you'll ever see non-blessed additional content.

Joe

Sorry to resurrect the dead. But 2 guys and myself have broken your "impossibility". Of all people, you should realize, that some BSPs have embedded textures, or if decompiled, you can rebuild most of it to embed textures yourself. With a very nice tool called MultiEx, we can inject/extract any file from a SXWad (and a LOT of other game resource files). For the past month, we have done some research, and have successfully made an injection to a SXWad for a working map, such as fy_iceworld, fy_snow, and a couple others. The fact we can't get on live for doing this with a modded xbox doesn't bother me one bit. I love CS for PC, and if I can play these awesome maps on CSX, that would just be awesome. I did some more research regarding these XPR files, and to my surprise, someone else built a XPR injector/extractor. So again, we are able to inject graphical screens and even our own models into CSX. Just recently I figured out how to completely add a new map to CSX without removing any files. I have also learned that VALVe has basically made CSX a copy of CS1.6 with a mix of CZ models and what not. All the commands in CS1.6 can (for the most part) be executed in CSX. And in conclusion to my research, even the incredible CS1.6 mods (such as AMXX or WC3) is even possible in CSX. Though this find for VALVe probably isn't going to go over well, I'm proud the fact that I can play some incredible maps on the XBox now, even if it wasn't planned to do so. So thank you VALVe and good luck!
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Old 06-22-2005, 08:09 PM   #42
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Default Re: CSX file formats??? Help please...

Quote:
Originally posted by gunfu:
You won't be able to get anything useful out of the CSX assets. Here's why:

.sxwad was a format developed specifically for CSX (it's not part of the xbox XDK) to facilitate fast, streaming, threaded level loads from the DVD. The compression format is unique to CSX, so there's not a decompressor around (except the CSX binary).

Models in CSX are a different format (optimized for xbox - the PC half-life model format is pretty crappy because it stores euler rotations for all bones instead of the optimized quaternions that the CSX version uses) and the model format changed enough by the end of the project that you can't decompile it with PC tools.

The textures are not stored in the model files (well, they are, but those are the old crappy 8-bit PC counter-strike textures which are never loaded by the engine) but in separate 32-bit resource bundles that are embedded in the sxwad. again, the resource bundles are substantially different from the ones generated by the bundling tool that ships with xbox XDK (we needed added functionality so we ended up writing our own exporter).

the BSP format has also changed, because we don't keep visibility information; on xbox it's cheaper to render the entire level every frame from a static pushbuffer instead of figuring out which components to render. so the bsp format is changed to be pushbuffer friendly and wouldn't be useful on the PC anyway.

the sounds are in fact in xact soundbank and wavebanks. AFAIK you can't get the sound effects *out* of a wavebank, only compile new ones from source art and the xact main project file (which didn't ship with the game).

So there's no use for the sounds, textures, models, or BSP in the game, if you could decompress and extract the contents of the sxwad (which you can't).
Alright now to clear up some other information that I've discovered. The fact that we could get any texture, model, sound, or whatever from CSX states how I'm going to respond to your statements. You say that none of them work on CS for PC, however, I have tested this and they all work! However, some of the files you have to run through some programs to get them all working (such as texture designers, or the like). The audio (in some circumstances) does not, however that does not worry me at all.
You should have looked into something similar to Halo's .MAP files instead of creating your own compressed directory. I'm sure of all people, VALVe could've predicted that their SXWad file could be cracked. Now, we cannot build a SXWad from scratch, as you said you must have the debug CSX to do this. And it's not really any concern. MultiEx simply replaces files in the archive with any file we inject. Of course, some BSPs require more model placeholders.. those *1-*80 in your "Dust". The other SXWads have more placeholders though so that became again, no problem at all. I'm not trying to hurt VALVe or sound demoting to you in any way, Joe, but simply that they could've looked into a more "secure" way of doing things. After all, you have plenty of years to see what people have done to CS for PC. If you have any questions to me regarding CSX or any of the files in CSX, feel free to e-mail me at zx_storm@yahoo.com or the.only.storm@gmail.com.

I do have 1 question I would like to ask Joe/VALVe, in regards if you do not believe what I am saying. Why did you take out cs_downed from CSX? You have the "preview screen" (as I call it) of what appears to be a remake of cs_downed in FrontEnd.SXWad XPR files. Did you run into problems while importing this or what?

From a truly appreciated buyer and supporter of Counter Strike for the XBox, I would like to thank you for what you've done.
-James (Storm)
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Old 07-14-2005, 10:13 PM   #43
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Default Re: CSX file formats??? Help please...

I own CSX for xbox and I too would like to get my hands on the ISO and use the skins and levels for CZ for PC can you hook me up with the ISO and I can help you with this.
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