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Old 05-17-2006, 04:44 PM   #1
ob12
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Default Do you have to pay for all of the SiN episodes?

I understand that there are 9 episodes in the SiN games but do you have to pay for all of them? I mean they are over $20 each and by the time pay and download all of them you are paying over $180 now dont get me wrong I am not here to start trouble but I think that it is too much money for a game. Does anyone agree?
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Old 05-17-2006, 05:02 PM   #2
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Default Re: Do you have to pay for all of the SiN episodes?

Quote:
Originally posted by ob12:
Does anyone agree?
No.
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Old 05-17-2006, 05:48 PM   #3
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Default Re: Do you have to pay for all of the SiN episodes?

Quote:
too much money for a game
It's not one game. It's NINE games, all nine of them six hours long, and reasonably priced for that much game time for 20 dollars each. You cannot say "180 is too much for one game" if you have to consider the sheer length of all nine episodes in a row (once finished), the incredible amount of content they will all have, and the time it will take to make all of them. It's not like you're paying 180 right away at once... you pay 20 for a small and nice game with lots to offer, and you do that nine times. End of story.

Ever tried buying a TV series on DVD? Costs more than a movie; still you won't argue that it's "too much money for a movie" - because it's not a movie.
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Old 05-17-2006, 07:32 PM   #4
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Default Re: Do you have to pay for all of the SiN episodes?

maybe we got the last Episode for free when we buy all the other [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

if not... i'll buy the last one too [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
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Old 05-17-2006, 07:42 PM   #5
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Default Re: Do you have to pay for all of the SiN episodes

Quote:
Originally posted by MadMax:
Quote:
too much money for a game
It's not one game. It's NINE games, all nine of them six hours long, and reasonably priced for that much game time for 20 dollars each. You cannot say "180 is too much for one game" if you have to consider the sheer length of all nine episodes in a row (once finished), the incredible amount of content they will all have, and the time it will take to make all of them. It's not like you're paying 180 right away at once... you pay 20 for a small and nice game with lots to offer, and you do that nine times. End of story.

Ever tried buying a TV series on DVD? Costs more than a movie; still you won't argue that it's "too much money for a movie" - because it's not a movie.
I'm not arguing against you, but to say each episode is 6 hours long is, well, at this point completely ignorant. Emergence was anywhere from 4-5 hours long, six is really pushing it. I'm going to assume future episodes will be longer, maybe, and maybe they wont.

As it is... 9 episodes at 4 hours each equals 36 hours of game play. $180 divided by 36 equals about $5. If you judge games strictly on single player than this price is actually cheaper than most games. ($6.25 per hour for HL2 at release, but you also got CS:S, DOD:S, HL2M...)

And therein lies the rub, really. For our $5 an hour all we get is the singel player... so far... I know Arena mode is coming, and there might be multiplayer in a future episode... but really, those are things that, these days, come in EVERY game automatically. It's a little uncomfortable to think that we'll keep paying the same price for the same amount of pay even long after we've gotten our multiplayer and our bonus mode.

All I can do is hope that future episodes actually hit the six hour mark. I've always thought games were a little overpriced. And although Emergence was a great experience, the length of it and the fact that it repeated the same boss twice and had us battle the grandmother of all FPS game cliches was a little disappointing.

But still... $180 for 36 hours of game is not unreasonable, and this series of games will more than likely well surpass 36 hours on complition.

Course I paid $60 for Oblivion and pulled in exess of 80 hours of game play out of it, not counting the 40+ my girlfriend is getting too... So it's all relative.
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Old 05-17-2006, 09:21 PM   #6
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Default Re: Do you have to pay for all of the SiN episodes

nope. don't agree. sorry.
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Old 05-17-2006, 09:37 PM   #7
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Default Re: Do you have to pay for all of the SiN episodes

Don't know about you, but I've played the game almost 18 hours now. 1st play-through, 2nd play-through, HardCorps Mode, finding secrets, etc. Not to mention Arena Mode is coming anytime soon. That'll add even more replay value. And again, not to mention it came with SiN 1 and SiN 1 MP which were a blast to play. Played the original sin and some good matches of MP. So...let's see: 17.95$US for 20+hours of entertainment value. Seems like a deal to me.
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Old 05-17-2006, 09:49 PM   #8
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Default Re: Do you have to pay for all of the SiN episodes

I find it kind of funny how often people compair Oblivion to FPS's it's sadly appropriate. I got more enjoyment out of Emergence than I did out of Oblivion, and that's what most important to me. Emergence makes me feel like a bought a game rather than a product.
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Old 05-17-2006, 10:32 PM   #9
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Default Re: Do you have to pay for all of the SiN episodes

I think the key here is that we just don't know what Ritual is planning, how much content they provide probably has something to do with the success of the game (which I theorize is going to be pretty good, compared to their advertising budget), or other variables may force them to do.

Who knows, maybe the imminent Arena mode and Episode 2's inevitable DM with hoverbikes (wishful thinking) will keep a lot of fans busy enough to wait for a price drop before buying some episodes.

I guess I can't speak fully objectively because, over 3 years, $180 causes me little financial pain, and I was more than satisfied with SE1's (continuing) experience. However, people who can't afford that can wait for a while for the price to go down a bit. So I don't think anyone is necessarily forced to shell out the bucks.
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Old 05-18-2006, 01:16 PM   #10
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Default Re: Do you have to pay for all of the SiN episodes

I think a better idea would be to sell the additional episodes at a discounted price to those who've bought the previous episodes. Like EP2 would be at $20 off the shelf, but maybe like $15 for those that bought EP1.
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Old 05-18-2006, 07:09 PM   #11
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Default Re: Do you have to pay for all of the SiN episodes?

Quote:
Originally posted by MadMax:
Quote:
too much money for a game
It's not one game. It's NINE games, all nine of them six hours long, and reasonably priced for that much game time for 20 dollars each. You cannot say "180 is too much for one game" if you have to consider the sheer length of all nine episodes in a row (once finished), the incredible amount of content they will all have, and the time it will take to make all of them. It's not like you're paying 180 right away at once... you pay 20 for a small and nice game with lots to offer, and you do that nine times. End of story.

Ever tried buying a TV series on DVD? Costs more than a movie; still you won't argue that it's "too much money for a movie" - because it's not a movie.
I agree with you and i'm happy to pay for all episodes [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Just need to get my own creditcard soon, don't want to use my friends one everytime [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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Old 05-18-2006, 07:23 PM   #12
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Default Re: Do you have to pay for all of the SiN episodes

Quote:
Originally posted by MadMax:
Quote:
too much money for a game
It's not one game. It's NINE games, all nine of them six hours long, and reasonably priced for that much game time for 20 dollars each. You cannot say "180 is too much for one game" if you have to consider the sheer length of all nine episodes in a row (once finished), the incredible amount of content they will all have, and the time it will take to make all of them. It's not like you're paying 180 right away at once... you pay 20 for a small and nice game with lots to offer, and you do that nine times. End of story.

Ever tried buying a TV series on DVD? Costs more than a movie; still you won't argue that it's "too much money for a movie" - because it's not a movie.
Actually I woudln't consider it 9 games. Maybe 1 game and 8 expansion packs. Really though we can't consider it one game or 9 games, it's 9 episodes of 1 series, making up 1 season (to use a television term) of a game. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

It's like a comic book series.
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Old 05-18-2006, 09:35 PM   #13
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Default Re: Do you have to pay for all of the SiN episodes

I like how no one's noticed the person hasn't even replied. Good job pouncing on another person disagreeing with the pricing system, though.
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Old 05-21-2006, 03:35 AM   #14
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Default Re: Do you have to pay for all of the SiN episodes?

Quote:
Originally posted by ob12:
I understand that there are 9 episodes in the SiN games but do you have to pay for all of them? I mean they are over $20 each and by the time pay and download all of them you are paying over $180 now dont get me wrong I am not here to start trouble but I think that it is too much money for a game. Does anyone agree?
Yep, I 100% agree. It's painfully obvious that many fan-boys here are still adolescent, spoiled children with no sense of financial value. I was actually considering purchasing the game tonight until I saw the ridiculous price for 1/9th of a game. What a complete scam.

It is rather entertaining to see people suggest that you're getting "nine games" instead of nine parts to the same game. Let me explain something here, the primary factor of production time and cost is spent on creating the software, tools and product foundation. They didnít even need to create their own graphic engine since that was licensed. As each new episode is produced, they only need to build new maps, develop some more pre-conceived story, and maybe add a couple new game characters, sounds and textures. All of the game concept, game design, game mechanics, development tools (map/model/texture editors, et cetera) and 95% of models, sounds and graphics have already been created! Do you have any idea how fast and easy it is to build on pre-existing content verses development from scratch? Let me know when you work for an actual software company and have some clue as to what youíre talking about. Right now, you donít.

The fact is that Ritual would be pushing the envelope at half that price per episode. Thatís $10 per episode with a total of $90 for you mathematicians. Obviously, I canít exactly blame Ritual. This ďper-episodeĒ concept itís a genius business strategy. The idea is similar to high-interest loans; get the monthly payments down to something theyíre willing to pay and stretch it out as far as possible. As long as the naive customers can afford the current payment, they wonít pay any attention to the end product value. Excellent work. Iíd love to see how all of you handle your debt ratio in 10 or so years (when youíre old enough to get a loan).

Ritual business logistics FTW.
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Old 05-21-2006, 07:38 AM   #15
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Default Re: Do you have to pay for all of the SiN episodes?

Your first post and you're dishing out random insults. Nice one.
Quote:
Let me explain something here, the primary factor of production time and cost is spent on creating the software, tools and product foundation. They didnít even need to create their own graphic engine since that was licensed. As each new episode is produced, they only need to build new maps, develop some more pre-conceived story, and maybe add a couple new game characters, sounds and textures. All of the game concept, game design, game mechanics, development tools (map/model/texture editors, et cetera) and 95% of models, sounds and graphics have already been created! Do you have any idea how fast and easy it is to build on pre-existing content verses development from scratch? Let me know when you work for an actual software company and have some clue as to what youíre talking about. Right now, you donít.
Licensing an engine costs money that will up the price of the game. Future episodes WILL require coding, modeling and texturing, as they will be set up in different maps, include different people and weapons, and a lot of stuff that we ask for will hopefully be implemented. It's THAT part that to me justifies the 20 dollars. Ritual don't just make a game, they take their time and read through ALL of this criticism and praise from the community to make the next episode better. Someone's gotta be paid for this worktime as well.

Also, I bet that Ritual will simply offer MORE in the next episodes than they did in Emergence, exactly because the groundwork is done.

Your arguments don't work with me, sorry. And no, I'm neither rich nor adolescent.
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Old 05-21-2006, 03:57 PM   #16
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Default Re: Do you have to pay for all of the SiN episodes

i dont think its over priced, i think the game for the amount of time and work that goes in to it is fairly priced, the problem i have is some of the glitches that still arent fixed after steam patches upload
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Old 05-21-2006, 05:51 PM   #17
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Default Re: Do you have to pay for all of the SiN episodes

Actually, I agree with this. I think paying $20 for each piece is bogus. And after playing the first episode, I wasn't very impressed enough to shell out $160 for the rest; I'm going to wait for some anthology pack to be released at the end of the series and just pick that up for $50.

Quote:
Originally posted by MadMax:
You cannot say "180 is too much for one game" if you have to consider the sheer length of all nine episodes in a row (once finished), the incredible amount of content they will all have, and the time it will take to make all of them.
If you've seen Valve's outline for how long it should take to make a game using SDK, they outline that mods for Source should take only five weeks.
http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Making_a_MOD

So, if only five weeks are spent developing each part of the game, 5 weeks x 9 pieces = 45 weeks. That's less than one year. And then if each piece is only 6 hours long, 6 x 9 = 54 hours of gameplay. Of course there's replayability, but most games have that.

So, you said "the sheer amount of gameplay"; 54 hours is the typical length of most games (namely RPGs). Then you said "the amount of time it takes to make them". It's only taking less than a year to make all the episodes, whereas most games takes longer. How long did it take HL2 to go gold? So, it takes less time (45 weeks) to produce standard gamelength (54 hours), nullifying your arguement "it takes more time" and "there's more length".

Quote:
Originally posted by MadMax:
Ever tried buying a TV series on DVD? Costs more than a movie; still you won't argue that it's "too much money for a movie" - because it's not a movie.
Neglecting the fact that video games and movies and TV are three different media (despite the fact you said the TV series is not a movie).

Also, we ARE paying for part of the game. From the Sin Episodes site itself:
"Buy as little or as much of the game as you want, with each installment offering 3 - 6 hours of action-packed gameplay."
http://www.sinepisodes.com/index.php?overview
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Old 05-21-2006, 06:06 PM   #18
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Default Re: Do you have to pay for all of the SiN episodes

Quote:
Originally posted by GG4ever:
If you've seen Valve's outline for how long it should take to make a game using SDK, they outline that mods for Source should take only five weeks.
http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Making_a_MOD
You have GOT to be [censored] kidding me... You're serious? You think it only takes 5 weeks to make a mod? Let me tell you something, most mods take YEARS. Hell, there is a Deus Ex mod STILL IN THE WORKS that was started, oh 6 years ago.

Quote:
Originally posted by GG4ever:
So, if only five weeks are spent developing each part of the game, 5 weeks x 9 pieces = 45 weeks. That's less than one year. And then if each piece is only 6 hours long, 6 x 9 = 54 hours of gameplay. Of course there's replayability, but most games have that.

So, you said "the sheer amount of gameplay"; 54 hours is the typical length of most games (namely RPGs). Then you said "the amount of time it takes to make them". It's only taking less than a year to make all the episodes, whereas most games takes longer. How long did it take HL2 to go gold? So, it takes less time (45 weeks) to produce standard gamelength (54 hours), nullifying your arguement "it takes more time" and "there's more length".
I just had to quote this because that is probably the stupidest thing I've ever read. I mean, how old are you? I don't even think most 12 year olds would by what you're selling.
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Old 05-21-2006, 07:35 PM   #19
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Default Re: Do you have to pay for all of the SiN episodes

He's obviously misinformed, but do we have to resort to rude posts?

You people don't need to wonder why people who come here quickly leave if they're not absolute fanboys for Ritual. I would think that Ritual and you all here would welcome varying opinions about their games.
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Old 05-22-2006, 04:39 AM   #20
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Default Re: Do you have to pay for all of the SiN episodes

Quote:
Originally posted by ertertwert:
Quote:
Originally posted by GG4ever:
Ownage.
I just had to quote this because that is probably the stupidest thing I've ever read. I mean, how old are you? I don't even think most 12 year olds would by what you're selling.
Well it seems you got schooled by this 12 year old. The beef of your post was quoting me, not making any arguement for your standpoint. Not to mention you said my comment was stupid, giving no reason why except for the fact I must be 12 years old. Good job in the Suck department. I'll make sure you get a raise.
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Old 05-22-2006, 12:06 PM   #21
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Default Re: Do you have to pay for all of the SiN episodes?

Quote:
Originally posted by MadMax:
Your first post and you're dishing out random insults. Nice one.
Random? No. Targeted? Most certainly. I appreciate your reverence, though.


Quote:
Originally posted by MadMax:
Licensing an engine costs money that will up the price of the game.
You'll have to clarify where I may have suggested that "licensing" (of any kind) is free and does not reflect on product pricing. Again, do you have any idea of the price and time comparison of developing your own graphic engine in-house? That question is rhetorical because evidently, you don't. I can assure you that licensing a full game engine is far cheaper, faster and easier to develop for.


Quote:
Originally posted by MadMax:
Future episodes WILL require coding, modeling and texturing, as they will be set up in different maps, include different people and weapons, and a lot of stuff that we ask for will hopefully be implemented. It's THAT part that to me justifies the 20 dollars. Ritual don't just make a game, they...
I had to cut your fan-boy ramblings short there.

I specifically mentioned that new episodes would require minimal modeling, texturing and sounds. It may also require a nominal amount of coding to handle new object functions (i.e. a new type of environment interaction). New weapon support, for the most part, typically only requires modified characteristic values.

Again, the amount of work and time to build on an existing software foundation does not justify suggesting that each episode should be treated as individual games. Such a proposal is both ignorant and foolish.


Quote:
Originally posted by MadMax:
Your arguments don't work with me, sorry. And no, I'm neither rich nor adolescent.
I never said anything about anyone being rich. In fact, I'm sure there are plenty of individuals defending this pricing scheme that have little-to-no money at all. Ironically, I'm willing to bet those very same individuals willing to spend $180 on one game don't own their own house or manage their debt/income ratio appropriately. That type of priority and lack of financial value is adolescent, regardless of physical age.


Quote:
Originally posted by ertertwert:
You have GOT to be [censored] kidding me... You're serious? You think it only takes 5 weeks to make a mod? Let me tell you something, most mods take YEARS. Hell, there is a Deus Ex mod STILL IN THE WORKS that was started, oh 6 years ago.
No, I think he was being completely serious and reasonable. Do not ever equate development time of a free and voluntary fan-based community mod to a paid software product from a legitimate software developer. I can't even begin to expand on the uninformed, idiocy of such a comparison. I recommend that you spare yourself the embarrassment of future contributions to this debate.


Quote:
Originally posted by ertertwert:
I just had to quote this because that is probably the stupidest thing I've ever read. I mean, how old are you? I don't even think most 12 year olds would by what you're selling.
Actually, your statement above managed to surpass all presumed limitations of stupidity.

Although, I will agree that no one will "by" what he is selling.


Quote:
Originally posted by GG4ever:
Well it seems you got schooled by this 12 year old.
Very true but let's be honest in saying that it wouldn't be difficult for a 2 year old to school this clown.
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Old 05-22-2006, 12:40 PM   #22
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Default Re: Do you have to pay for all of the SiN episodes

As much as I loved playing the first episode, I have to agree that this game is too short for even $20, especially given that they didn't have to create the game engine from scratch. I wonder how much time Ritual spent on the actual development, I guess much of it was spent on learning the technology. Hopefully we will see much more content in later episodes as the team should have gotten more comfortable working with Source tech after this first episode.

And keep your cool guys, let's keep insults out of this conversation. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 05-22-2006, 01:02 PM   #23
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Default Re: Do you have to pay for all of the SiN episodes

20$ wasn't only for the episode. With that comes SiN 1 SP and MP and not to mention Arena Mode that is coming along soon. It's a good package for the price IMO. Already got 25+hrs worth out of it.
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Old 05-22-2006, 01:09 PM   #24
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Default Re: Do you have to pay for all of the SiN episodes

Just curious, how many people are still playing Sin 1 MP? And is Sin 1 included in the retail package as well?
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Old 05-22-2006, 01:14 PM   #25
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Default Re: Do you have to pay for all of the SiN episodes

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Originally posted by FellowSinner:
And is Sin 1 included in the retail package as well?
Yes.



Just read the text at Elexis's cannons.
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