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Old 06-02-2006, 04:56 AM   #1
commanderbash
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Default sin is better

i don't know if you programers really read this or not, but my hat's off to you because sin is just plain better. i finished hl2 ep1 a little ealier today in a single sitting just like i did when i got sin on it's release, and it just didn't have the same umph to it. i didn't want to sit back down and it over on max difficulty, or even go back through it to take a close look at everything i missed. with sin i played it front to back 2 or 3 times now, and when don't feel like some online gamming i like cranking up the dificultly to max with hardcorp just to see how far i can get, i havn't had a single player game that had this kind of re-playability since Duke Nukem 3D and fallout 2. and between the cronicles of sin and hl2, steam doesn't have a chance [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]
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Old 06-02-2006, 02:44 PM   #2
raeleus
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Default Re: sin is better

HL2 Episode 1 is very pretty, but the gameplay mechanics of Sin are great. I never enjoyed shooting a pistol more in my entire life! The headshots alone were worth it. Add on secrets and dynamic difficulty, the game is a killer.
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Old 06-02-2006, 05:58 PM   #3
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Default Re: sin is better

I'm personally enjoying Episode 1 more. I'm finding it less dull than I found HL2, and it seems to me to have more variety than Emergence. Also, Alyx doesn't annoy the snot out of me like Jessica does.
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Old 06-03-2006, 01:41 AM   #4
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Default Re: sin is better

sin:e vs HL2:e1

SiN wins.
now, im not saying that cuz i'm a "sin fanboy" by any means, but simply that I had more fun playing Sin: Emergence than I did HL episode 1!!

I beat hl2 ep1 in.. oh.. less than 4 hours [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

SiN took me closer to 7.
alyx ALWAYS chattering got on my nervs a little, mostly just because gordon never responded (something thats bothered me since hl:1 heh.)
but hey, okay, i can live with that.

at least she was helpfull. and only got in my way a few times.

the puzzles were well done and not too bad. i felt that the 'puzzles' in emergence blended better into the game than in HL though...

personally, I found SiN to be a lot more with my time and money.

Bang for the buck? SiN wins that.
HL2:e1 was entertaining, sure , and I dont REGRET the $20 spent.... (if it was more, for THAT.. then I sure would) but I have no desire to play it again either..


i think i'll go play sin:e through again though.. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

(for the 5th time)

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Old 06-03-2006, 03:35 AM   #5
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Default Re: sin is better

Yeah sure. They have completely different play styles, comparing HL2 episode 1 to Sin Emergence is just silly.
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Old 06-03-2006, 04:01 AM   #6
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Default Re: sin is better

i feel the same, about the hl2ep1 puzzles that is. they were lacking, i mean all you did was plug ant holes with cars and turn cranks that really don't seem to belong where they were. the only "puzzles" in hl2ep1 that i fond intresting were the "plasma ball" generators, the the "plasma ball" obsticle course and the flooded sub basement with the electric lock, chucking falling debree on the elevator was fun too. but i really liked the real hands on puzzles, like lost coast, or the battery operated door in the hl2 buggy mission, the ones that you have to actually pick up stuff and move it around. there was some of that in sinep1 like the fuze box, but mostly it was only to get bonuses like the 200 health packs, i think it would be pretty neat/challenging if you actually had to "build" somthing in sinep2, like start in the middle of a large arena style map with a busted helicopter that you'd have to scour the place for parts and actually carry them back to fix the thing for the next mission, and of course, fight through the bad guys while looking around
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Old 06-03-2006, 04:16 AM   #7
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Default Re: sin is better

Quote:
Originally posted by CommanderZx2:
Yeah sure. They have completely different play styles, comparing HL2 episode 1 to Sin Emergence is just silly.
how silly is it, really. they are two games that are made on the same egine, have the same style of play, and use puzzles that utalize(sp?) the engines' projection of real life physics to solve larger then life senarios.with nearly the same ingrediant you can make cake, or pancakes. just because the two games go on seperate paths doesn't mean they can't compare.
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Old 06-03-2006, 04:33 AM   #8
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Default Re: sin is better

Quote:
Originally posted by commanderbash:
Quote:
Originally posted by CommanderZx2:
Yeah sure. They have completely different play styles, comparing HL2 episode 1 to Sin Emergence is just silly.
how silly is it, really. they are two games that are made on the same egine, have the same style of play, and use puzzles that utalize(sp?) the engines' projection of real life physics to solve larger then life senarios.with nearly the same ingrediant you can make cake, or pancakes. just because the two games go on seperate paths doesn't mean they can't compare.
yea, its not silly at all, really.

They are the two first episodic games out there as well, so its natural to compare them.
play styles? yes. that they do. I ENJOYED HL2, as well as ep1..
i, personally, just found sin emergence to be a bit more on the "fun" factor.

not to mention longer [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

mearly stating, that for $20, ep1 was pushing it, while SiN Emergence was well worth it.

this is all, of course, mearly my opinion. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 06-03-2006, 08:28 AM   #9
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Default Re: sin is better

Personally I found HL2:Ep1 to be more enjoying because of the more variety in weapons (yeah I kno they're from HL2 all of the but anyways) it was also because the HL2 story feels more epic than SiN:Ep did, but I dare say that the fighting style was sometimes better in SiN:Ep.

And I dunno bout the fun factor in SiN:Ep, never really noticed it, but I agree on the part of more interactive puzzles and moving stuff.
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Old 06-03-2006, 02:01 PM   #10
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Default Re: sin is better

I loved episode 2. ill quite happily buy anything that says half life on it, like many others. (and gabe knows it [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]). Personally i prefered SiN, but i cant really give a balanced argument as i am admittedly a SiN fanboy [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

In the end it just boils down to value for money and no one can deny that emergence + Sin 1 stretches your $20 further.
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Old 06-03-2006, 04:20 PM   #11
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Default Re: sin is better

Quote:
Originally posted by Lord_Rick:
I loved episode 2. ill quite happily buy anything that says half life on it, like many others. (and gabe knows it [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]). Personally i prefered SiN, but i cant really give a balanced argument as i am admittedly a SiN fanboy [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

In the end it just boils down to value for money and no one can deny that emergence + Sin 1 stretches your $20 further.
Well yeah considering you get the original SiN as well. I think there should be an incentive or addition with episode 2 as well.
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Old 06-03-2006, 04:27 PM   #12
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Default Re: sin is better

I'd just like to use this post to come up with some HL2:E1 and Sin:E comparisons. And some more general reactions to SiN after I've had a bit of time to think about them.

Whereas Half Life was at least 2 hours shorter than Sin on my first play through, I still felt they were both good games

I think the combat in Sin was generally more fast paced and visceral, something which I'd like to see continued. However, as for enemy variety, Sin could really do better. There were possibly more different zombies than the entire Sin roster. I know they've had HL2 to build on so it makes it easier, but we could have done with more clever mutants. I'd like to see some more imaginative enemies, mutants allows you do some some far out designs, what about wall walking ones? Just do something more out of the ordinary next time.

What I think Valve have done in raising the bar, is in your co-op AI. Alyx is pretty damn good in this episode. Whereas Jessica behaves like Alyx in the original HL2, short periods and then going off some other place. Tricks like half closed doors which they can get through and you can't, feel like lame tricks. RItual would have to improve their AI, or have Blade more of a lone gun character like the original.

I think something that the Valve guys definitely do right is storytelling. Sin had context look items which are meant to ask questions and foreshadow future events. However, these are pretty light, and not many comments are made on them. For example, both Project Promexia and Arch13 are met with the comment "what's that" from others. Whereas when you see Mossman on the screen talking about the Project, or those pods in the red room, you're genuinely intrigued. There was also more motivation in HL2 to drive gameplay along, in Sin, I was asking myself, "why am I doing this?", "where am I going?", "I've been shot up with drugs, why aren't I going to the HC headquarters?". Whereas there was always an answer to why I had to do something. Go back into the core or everyone dies, run away from the citadel or everyone dies. Even when you're forced into the core alone and seperated from Alyx it's pretty believable, because you have the trusty hazard suit. I'm sure the "why did I do this?" questions will be answered in future episodes, but it makes it more satisfying for the player if he knows why he's doing something in the first place. The "not-quite" talking Blade seemed to be a wrong bet though, as many previous posts have commented on, he should do some storyline driving himself.

I have an aging PC, I run both games at 800x600 with roughly medium settings, and I don't see the fancy light shows that HDR gives me. But Ep1 was still the better looking game. Of course, they've been able to pull a lot of assets from HL2, but in general, the world feels more cohesive. There are also some "wow" moments in Ep1 which were almost totally missing in Sin, if you follow the commentary, they tell you they specifically designed scenes just to wow the player as a reward. The only actual reward in Sin was probably the skybox. For example, it would have been cooler and more exciting, instead of crashing into a small reception in the Sintek building, to crash straight into the middle of a lobby with a multistory atrium in the centre, and then to have a slightly cooler version of the Sin lobby scene we see later.

I think the biggest asset in the Sin universe is Freeport city, it's meant to be a bustling megacity with population into the 10s of millions. However, we don't see enough of it at all in the first episode. I know the chase scene was cut out, and whereas I trust it was for good reasons, we do miss out a lot of the city. And we only saw the quiet bayside outskirts of Freeport, there were barely any other vehicles on the road, hardly and hardly any pedestrians. On the ground, it didn't feel like a living breathing city, from the air, it did, with the airships and the tankers. But it really needed more variety in the car models, and just more of them. I really hope future episodes take us into proper Freeport with lots of civilian NPCs and the like. It's something that can really differentiate the lonely desolate City 17 with the cosmopolitan vibe of Freeport.
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Old 06-03-2006, 05:52 PM   #13
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Default Re: sin is better

Quote:
Originally posted by Raveness:
Quote:
Originally posted by Lord_Rick:
I loved episode 2. ill quite happily buy anything that says half life on it, like many others. (and gabe knows it [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]). Personally i prefered SiN, but i cant really give a balanced argument as i am admittedly a SiN fanboy [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

In the end it just boils down to value for money and no one can deny that emergence + Sin 1 stretches your $20 further.
Well yeah considering you get the original SiN as well. I think there should be an incentive or addition with episode 2 as well.
Half-Life 2 Episode 1 comes with:
Half-Life 2 Death Match
Half-Life 2 Lost coast
Half-Life Death Match Source

Quote:
Originally posted by hahnchen:
I'd like to see some more imaginative enemies, mutants allows you do some some far out designs, what about wall walking ones? Just do something more out of the ordinary next time.
In the dark area there was Fast headcrabs on the ceiling, you might of missed them though if you didn't look at the ceiling.
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Old 06-03-2006, 06:27 PM   #14
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Default Re: sin is better

Quote:
Originally posted by CommanderZx2:
Half-Life 2 Episode 1 comes with:
Half-Life 2 Death Match
Half-Life 2 Lost coast
Half-Life Death Match Source

Not if you have HL2. well, it does but you have them already.

Quote:

In the dark area there was Fast headcrabs on the ceiling, you might of missed them though if you didn't look at the ceiling.
I think he was talking about emergence.
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Old 06-03-2006, 06:30 PM   #15
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Default Re: sin is better

Quote:
Originally posted by he_the_great:
Quote:
Originally posted by CommanderZx2:
Half-Life 2 Episode 1 comes with:
Half-Life 2 Death Match
Half-Life 2 Lost coast
Half-Life Death Match Source

Not if you have HL2. well, it does but you have them already.

Quote:

In the dark area there was Fast headcrabs on the ceiling, you might of missed them though if you didn't look at the ceiling.
I think he was talking about emergence.
Then how can people claim that Sin Emergence is better value for money if people possibly already had Sin 1. Just as people possibly already had Half-Life 2.
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Old 06-03-2006, 07:13 PM   #16
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Default Re: sin is better

I think you've hit the nail on the head there hahnchen. The co-op AI especially was impressive. In one instance I ran into a train away from some enemy threat. Alyx followed, but rather than back me into a corner, she ran into the train and went THE OTHER WAY allowing us to cover the door from both sides.

It's such a small thing, yet so amazingly cool and useful.
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Old 06-04-2006, 04:00 AM   #17
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Default Re: sin is better

Quote:
Originally posted by CommanderZx2:

Then how can people claim that Sin Emergence is better value for money if people possibly already had Sin 1. Just as people possibly already had Half-Life 2.
For one if you you don't have the game then it does improve value for money. Which is also true for the deathmatch (not Lost Cost as it is really just a demo anyway). Both of these, for me, made it so I got more for my money.

However, SiN comes with Arena and MP and SiN1. (the two MP with HL2:1 are equivalent, IMO)
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Old 06-04-2006, 01:09 PM   #18
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Default Re: sin is better

Half-Life 2: Episode One was good, but there was only one level that was truly great ("Urban Flight"). The first two levels were boring as heck, and the last level was nothing more than a glorified escort mission. The other level (there's five total) was just used to introduce Zombines, and you have to shine your flastlight on them to help out Alyx, which is very tedious.

SiN: Episodes - Emergence wins.
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Old 06-04-2006, 01:28 PM   #19
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I haven't played HL:Episode 1, but from what I've seen from the screen shots it's amazing, visually. This got me really excited about Sin:Episode 2, I believe Ritual will have all the HDR and stuff added in by the time Episode 2 ships.
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Old 06-04-2006, 02:42 PM   #20
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Default Re: sin is better

I liked HL2 Ep1 in the course that it was just more HL2. That was really all it was.

Sin Ep 1 was a whole new game from beginning to end. I looked forward to it a lot more than HL2ep1, I was more eager to play it through in one sitting (forgoing a class in the process) and I enjoyed it a whole lot more (even with the dynamic difficulty bug).

-Maniac
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Old 06-04-2006, 04:25 PM   #21
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Default Re: sin is better

Quote:
Originally posted by Maniac:
I liked HL2 Ep1 in the course that it was just more HL2. That was really all it was.
-Maniac
Maybe it'd be better to compare SiN Episode 2 to HL Episode 1. They'd both be 'just more' that built upon the previous incarnation.
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Old 06-04-2006, 05:17 PM   #22
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Default Re: sin is better

Quote:
Originally posted by Raveness:
Quote:
Originally posted by Maniac:
I liked HL2 Ep1 in the course that it was just more HL2. That was really all it was.
-Maniac
Maybe it'd be better to compare SiN Episode 2 to HL Episode 1. They'd both be 'just more' that built upon the previous incarnation.
That and Half-Life 2: Episode 1 already had a HUGE chunk of their models, weapons, maps, etc, made out for them. Ritual had to make every piece from scratch (course it'll only make things by far quicker as it moves along) and they tried to get it out to their fans in a bit of a rush from what I saw. Overall though I still enjoy Sin Episodes more as far as game play and experience. Half-Life 2: Episode 1 just had a leg up on them was all. We'll see how things get progressing at about Episode 3.
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Old 06-05-2006, 07:12 PM   #23
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Default Re: sin is better

Quote:
Originally posted by David_Grove:
Quote:
Originally posted by Raveness:
Quote:
Originally posted by Maniac:
I liked HL2 Ep1 in the course that it was just more HL2. That was really all it was.
-Maniac
Maybe it'd be better to compare SiN Episode 2 to HL Episode 1. They'd both be 'just more' that built upon the previous incarnation.
That and Half-Life 2: Episode 1 already had a HUGE chunk of their models, weapons, maps, etc, made out for them. Ritual had to make every piece from scratch (course it'll only make things by far quicker as it moves along) and they tried to get it out to their fans in a bit of a rush from what I saw. Overall though I still enjoy Sin Episodes more as far as game play and experience. Half-Life 2: Episode 1 just had a leg up on them was all. We'll see how things get progressing at about Episode 3.
Lol if it's better why do you feel you need to make up excuses. Have they not been making emergence for, what like 7 years?

Still I don't see why everyone is comparing them, they're not competing in my opinion.
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Old 06-05-2006, 08:33 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by CommanderZx2:
Lol if it's better why do you feel you need to make up excuses. Have they not been making emergence for, what like 7 years?

Still I don't see why everyone is comparing them, they're not competing in my opinion.
Seven years? I kinda doubt that. If so then they've only been working on the idea and the mechanics. Modeling and such couldn't have started until they had the rights to the Source engine. And a big chunk of time (not so much effort) is the creation of models and such to look like or look similar to the concept art.

And the reason they're being compared is because they're both Episodic stories. Pairing up the first two of their kind that uses the same engine gives plenty of reason to put them side by side.
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Old 06-06-2006, 12:59 AM   #25
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Default Re: sin is better

Well, I played through HL2:ep 1, and I din't really like it much. I felt it was really grating to being forced to use the grav gun and only the grav gun for such a long period of time. Yes, it's a neat idea for a weapon, but not THAT neat, the first time I played through Ravenholm in HL2 I didn't pull it out once.

For most of the game I felt less like a hero then I felt like Alyx's assistent. Contrary to what others are saying, I also found her not terribly helpful. In the parking garage 2 zombines where near an antlion hole, so I ignored that hole and rushed to get the car from upstairs. When I left, the zombines and antlions where happily beating each other to a pulp, when I turn around again alyx has entered into melee with the whole mess of them instead of following me and dies.

While alyx's a.i. may be smarter Jessica's is more predictable(and her invincibility makes it so I can concentrate on myself) allowing me to do as I please, knowing that she is gonna try and follow me while shooting things.


I went through HL2:ep 1 constantly expecting a huge exciting battle to break out, but it never did as far as I could tell, just one puzzle like battle after the next where all I had to do was figure out what valve wanted me to do(the one exception to this is the blackout with zombies while waiting for the elevator...that was awsome)

In the end Sin is just plain fun..HL2 may have the better plot and char development..but sin has incindiary grenades and head-shot gibs..and if I'm gonna spend $20 for 2.5 hours of gameplay...head shot gibs has better replay value anyday.

Incidentally, I found HL2:ep 1 to have worse action sequences, and a less immersive atmosphere than both lost coast and HL2..not what one would expect from episodic content.
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