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Old 07-26-2005, 08:42 PM   #1
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Default QotW: Hatred

Sorry I've been silent for the last two weeks. We're gearing up to start bringing in people to start playtesting our products. If you're in the Dallas area and want to volunteer to be part of our playtester armada, go here to sign up.

This week's QotW comes right out of a recent tribal pow-wow...
What makes you hate a bad guy in a video game?
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Old 07-26-2005, 11:38 PM   #2
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Default Re: QotW: Hatred

Hmm, Tough Question

I would have to say that what makes me hate a bad guy in a game is when your battling him and you just cant kill him. You try and try and you just can't figure out how to kick his arse.
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Old 07-27-2005, 12:30 PM   #3
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Default Re: QotW: Hatred

Originally posted by Michael_Russell:
Sorry I've been silent for the last two weeks. We're gearing up to start bringing in people to start playtesting our products.
WOOHOO! Best news I've heard all week!

What makes you hate a bad guy in a video game?
I find that very often I don't hate the villians in video games. So many games anymore have plot twists and turns that I almost always wind up seeing multiple faces for the characters and can almost always see the reasons why they do the things they do. Doesn't stop me from blowing their heads off when the time comes, but I don't do it out of hatred for the character.

For me to hate anyone, they have to be completely devoid of anything I can respect.
- They have to only be looking out only for what they want and what they want can't have any redeeming value such as scientific knowledge. Science is neutral and only it's application is good or evil. Well, methods used to gather that knowledge can be good or evil as well, but scientific knowledge is neutral.
- The person would have to be willing to screw over or destroy anyone who gets in their way or even hints at disagreement with the character's goals.
- Greed is usually somewhere in the equation - seeking only benefit to themselves and regarding everyone else as mere tools to manipulate. The person should be completely self-serving.
- They have to be doing completely unredeemable things, and doing them often - using a baby as a shield, killing people who are sick or helpless as a distraction or to avoid capture
- The person has to be unrepentant. You have to know that this person will do the same behavior over and over again because they don't see anything wrong with what they did.
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Old 07-27-2005, 12:37 PM   #4
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Default Re: QotW: Hatred

Truly hating a character for me comes from the story itself. As with any good movie...let's say the remake of Cape Fear....how could you NOT hate Max Cady (Robert DeNiro) or maybe you hated Sam Bowden (Nick Nolte). Some comes from your perspective itself.

The story line & character development itself builds the hate factor for me. Maybe this is becasue I love another person in the story and this person, thing has done them wrong...etc.

As far as battle itself, a difficult character is frustrating maybe , but that not where the real hate comes from.
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Old 07-27-2005, 02:35 PM   #5
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Default Re: QotW: Hatred

I hate bad controls and games that try to be hyper-realistic, if I wanted to realistically shoot someone I wouldnt do it in a game(Paintball, don't think the wrong thing). Like OH NO YOU GOT A PIECE OF DUST IN YOUR EYE!!! VISION BLOCKED, or YOU JUST DIED OF MASSIVE LOSS OF BLOOD BECUASE YOU DIDNT BANDAGE YOUR FOOT WOUND!!
Also, you have to hate the bad guys, give them bumper stickers like this one:
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Old 07-28-2005, 02:55 AM   #6
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Default Re: QotW: Hatred

I like it when the bad guy Frames you to look like the bad guy, then good guys are going after you, plus you don't want to hurt them so you have to be careful. Maybe someone who is your friend helps you out so you can prove your innocents.

The bad guy can also score some bad points by capturing / hurting a character friend or, even killing someone close to the good guy.

If the bad guy really want his butt kicked, he mocks you and sets lots of traps, and the bad guy always know how to push your buttons.

Hope that help! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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Old 07-28-2005, 10:33 AM   #7
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Default Re: QotW: Hatred

Sadly, not much. Aside from "hatred" being a pretty harsh word, empathising with heroes & villains regardless of how they are depicted takes far more for me than any game can offer.
Fall into the stereotypes for the best results but ultimately the story will determine where my loyalties lie.
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Old 07-29-2005, 08:30 PM   #8
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Default Re: QotW: Hatred

For me to really hate a character they have to be built up. They can't simply say "I kill babies" and I believe them, I have to see them do something terrible. And I have to see it enough that I'm not de-sensitized to it, but enough so that it's clear this act of horror is no accident or one time thing. It's those closest to us that hurt us the most, so I think the player has to really care about the villian, at least until they become the villian. And even then, maybe throw in a hesitation on the part of the player when it comes to killing them. The other guys are right as well when they say that this villian should do something terrible to someone else that the player cares about (and this victim needs to be innocent, otherwise you might sympathize with the villian). This really helps to put things in perpective because, this innocent person was killed/injured/maimed for no reason at all. It's senseless, even if the villian thinks he's got a good reason.

Here's an example: think of some of the worst folks in history; Hitler, Castro, Hussein. They've all done terrible things to not only their own people, but to other nations as well. But do I hate them? No. This is because 1) none of their crimes have effected me directly 2) their victims, while numerous, are a faceless mass. Sure I feel bad for them, but I can't say "Hey my buddy Joe was killed/persecuted by villian X". A truly hated villian can not have a faceless victim. He may target a people group, but there has to be a face that the player associates with that people group, and one that the player cares about.

Now what about this former friend of mine who I trusted completely? He not only lied about my parents and their intentions, but he tried, through persuasion, deception, and misinformation to break up our group. In fact, he poisoned several people against my family. Not once has he taken responsibility for his actions or words, he just up and moved out of state. To this day he doesn't acknowledge that he messed up. I'm not sure he even realizes he did this, but I hate him none the less.

Put that into your villian and whoever plays will hate him.
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Old 07-30-2005, 09:08 PM   #9
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Default Re: QotW: Hatred

The "hate" for a bad guy in a game comes in two forms...

The first form is that of the I 'HATE' this MF'er because he's cheap as h3ll. For example, any game that constantly rewards you with slightly harder enemies (and bosses) only to provide you with an end boss type character that is SO much more powerful (more often cheap) than anything you have faced before. Basically, while you have been prepared for slightly harder challenges from new enemy to new enemy, you have not been prepared for something even remotely close to what you are thrown into in the end. This is ESPECIALLY true if you have not been given any clues to the possibly solution for beating the boss as the game has progressed. This is the type of "HATE" for a boss that is not the good kind. It's not a challenge, it's a frustration.

The second form of 'hate' is more of an emotional 'this guy is an @$$hole"! This is the type of boss character that has teased and/or taunted you the entire game to the point where ALL you wanna do is blow the b@st@rds head clean off. The more taunting and screwing over the character can do to you, the better the level of 'hate' builds up. For example, in SiN, you knew you were after Elexis. In the board room level you are behind the glass from her. You can just feel your trigger finger itchin to take her out of her misery when you are cut off once again...rrrgggg. This is the 'good' kind of hate where the game leads you towards the end. Also, doing this sort of thing should be done IN GAME from your characters point of view...NOT as separate cut scenes outside of the character where you as the player know what's going on, but your character doesn't. In short, you should feel like YOU are being screwed, not that you see the character is being screwed.

With that being said, even thou you were after Elexis in SiN and never got a real chance to face her, the game did a good job of building up that anticipation of wanting to take her out.

So, the first hate is more hate of the game design than of the actual character. This is a "oh God this sucks" kind of bad. The second hate is more of a 'personal' kind of thing that is set up thru the entire game leading you towards the end from you character's POV. This is the "oh I wanna kick that character's a$$" kind of good.

A build up to the end is always better than a "tada" we (the developers) were able to sping something on ya from a player's perspective.
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Old 08-03-2005, 04:01 PM   #10
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Default Re: QotW: Hatred

I'd hate characters that are pretending to be on the good side while very blatantly being bad. Like say a person who is in a position of power on the good side but doesn't really put up a huge front to hide their evilness... they might show it with their sly and mean personality.. and the problem is that no one except you(or a select few) sees this... a bit like Stemmons from EF2 or Umbridge from Harry Potter 5 (yes I read HP :P)

But there's a fine line between hate and annoyance... whether you truly hate the person or are just annoyed by their habits. I'd hate someone who has no morals or who is personally attacking me (directly or by hurting those close to me) but I'd be annoyed by someone who would keep taunting me or hampering my efforts.

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