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View Poll Results: Who is greater level designer Romero or Levelord
Romero couse he's got a Ferrari 5 9.43%
Levelord couse he looks like the fifth of the three musketeers 41 77.36%
who are these guys? 2 3.77%
why should I care? 9 16.98%
what is level design? 2 3.77%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-24-2006, 05:27 PM   #1
Stilgar
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Default Romero vs Levelord

This guy is genius. The original SiN is the shooter with the greatest level design I've ever played and the game is actually full of problems and bugs so that is what makes it so great. And we all know about Duke. It is limited by technology but it's undoubtedly the greatest in level design at the time.

I was surprised to read on wiki that Levelord created the first multiplayer space map(that's what q3dm17 is) for quake mission pack . Also the first multiplayer map with players of small size fighting in some everyday environment but I remember this from SiN. I hope his new creation is just as good. Can't wait to get that 7900GT and start playing Emergence "the way it's meant to be played".

However I think the greatest level designer of all the time is Romero, but he is not very active lately (at least with shooters) so...
Just to make sure you know what romero has done... except for being level designer for doom and quake he is the guy who suggested texturing the walls!!! Imagine games without textures on walls?

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Old 07-24-2006, 06:33 PM   #2
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Default Re: Romero vs Levelord

While Romero's place in gaming history cannot be denied... c'mon... Let's not forget his failures as well. Daikatana, anyone?

My vote is for Levelord. Romero did some great things when he was attached to id Software... but has fallen flat on his face without Carmack to support him. Levelord, on the other hand, has proven versatile and creative no matter who he's working for.

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Old 07-24-2006, 06:40 PM   #3
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Default Re: Romero vs Levelord

Levelord all the way. I am dissapointed he is only 83.33% of the votes.

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Old 07-24-2006, 07:03 PM   #4
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Default Re: Romero vs Levelord

Quote:
Originally Posted by booger
While Romero's place in gaming history cannot be denied... c'mon... Let's not forget his failures as well. Daikatana, anyone?
Levelord obviously, even though John here has roots as well. Bottom line is that he claimed he was going to make everyone his bitch, and failed.

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Old 07-24-2006, 07:42 PM   #5
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Default Re: Romero vs Levelord

Daikatana had GREAT level design. It is comparable to SiN's. The game had many other problems though. What is more let's not forget SiN was unplayable (worse than Daikatana) before the biggest patch for a game at the time was released. 70MB or something?

BTW I don't think we've got the right to compare the gods. I just thought it will be interesting discussion. That is why the poll answers are humorous (at least I think so ) and you can vote for all of them. I personally voted for them both and for "Who cares"

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Old 07-24-2006, 08:28 PM   #6
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Default Re: Romero vs Levelord

From the stories I've heard, Levelord is quite the musketeer / Bond of gaming.

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Old 07-24-2006, 11:56 PM   #7
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Default Re: Romero vs Levelord

I just enjoy games, though I do look up to the people that make things happen a great deal. In the end, I'm sure they're both great people.

But, since Romero infamously said that I'd be his bitch and my $20 sure proved him wrong, Levelord gets the consistency and smackdown vote. Really though, I share the love all around.

Edit: You're right. He didn't say that, they marketed that right in there. Oh, marketing. It fails us so much.

Last edited by JoelF : 07-25-2006 at 11:03 PM.
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Old 07-25-2006, 02:12 PM   #8
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Default Re: Romero vs Levelord

Levelord is way better than Romero and ferrari sucks!
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Old 07-25-2006, 04:39 PM   #9
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Default Re: Romero vs Levelord

I don't know how true this is, but the book Masters of Doom suggests that the infamous "John Romero's bitch" phrase wasn't his idea; one of his employees (whose name I forget) told Romero to put it on the advertisements. Romero was hesitant, but gave in.

Although John Romero shaped gaming history with his game and level design (Commander Keen, Wolfenstein and Doom: Episode One all featured memorable levels), Levelord definitely has more creative work. Since Romero hasn't mapped in many years, it's very difficult to compare them side-by-side.

Doom's starting level, Hanger, [sic] is definitely among the most memorable maps ever made, but Levelord's maps just scream brilliance. My vote goes to Levelord.

By the way, what's the real point of this poll? If you're posting in Ritual forums, the members there are obviously fans of Ritual...
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Old 07-25-2006, 06:53 PM   #10
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Default Re: Romero vs Levelord

I think it's comparing apples and oranges, mostly. If you look at the work they did in the era that they did it, they are both highly influential people. Commander Keen was and still is sheer genius, as is Wolfenstein and Doom. It can be said that Keen was the height of side-scrolling level design since side-scrollers somewhat reached their apex about then (barring the 3-D graphics and other techniques easily rendered nowadays, such as in Duke Nukem: Manhattan Project). I'll try to think of some appropriate metaphors now. It's like comparing:

- Apples and oranges. (Already used that one.)
- Sundaes and ice cream. One's just the natural (in this case, 3-D?) evolution of the other.
- Present versus past. Retrospect's a bitch -- a virtually unavoidable bitch, but a bitch nonetheless. Be it nostalgia or regretting a mistake, the past can't be changed, so things must be viewed through its lens. Many things imagined are limited by technology, such as the portal technology in Prey, which was in development for quite some time. The things possible now simply weren't reasonable then, or at least, not on the level they are now.

That's all for now. Hopefully that made sense.

Edit: Waaaaait a sec. Someone said he made the q3dm17 map.

I'm not going to censor this.

Holy shit. He made my favourite map ever - The Longest Yard. I have played that map for HOURS ON END. Hours. Hours upon hours upon hours. That is, in my opinion, the best open space map ever made. Period. I'm going to go play it for awhile right now.

Last edited by JoelF : 07-25-2006 at 10:56 PM.
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Old 07-26-2006, 12:58 AM   #11
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Default Re: Romero vs Levelord

Quote:
By the way, what's the real point of this poll? If you're posting in Ritual forums, the members there are obviously fans of Ritual...
as I said the poll is just a way to boost the discussion you can vote for both you see And of course I don't have any illusions on the outcome. If you go post this on doom forums you can be sure Romero will win

BTW the bitch advertisement is really cool I bet many people bought the game just to proove him wrong However this still sells the game and that is the point of an advertisement.

Quote:
Holy shit. He made my favourite map ever - The Longest Yard. I have played that map for HOURS ON END. Hours. Hours upon hours upon hours. That is, in my opinion, the best open space map ever made. Period. I'm going to go play it for awhile right now.
He DIDN'T make q3dm17. He made the first space platform map. This kind of maps got popular with unreal tournament and q3 (q3dm17 being the most popular ever). Levelord made the first map of this kind for Quake 1.

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Old 07-26-2006, 03:45 AM   #12
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Default Re: Romero vs Levelord

on a serious note who are these people i have no idea wat at all.

all i know is that they work on games is that correct.

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Old 07-26-2006, 05:41 AM   #13
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Default Re: Romero vs Levelord

Voted for Levelord, because he's one of the two responsible for the levels of the first pc-game I ever played, Duke Nukem 3D, and by that a major influence on the levels I make myself for jfDuke3D.
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Old 07-26-2006, 06:37 AM   #14
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Default Re: Romero vs Levelord

Romero has no Ferrari n00bs
Furthermore he hasn't designed maps since ages. So there's no real comparision at all.
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Old 07-26-2006, 07:44 AM   #15
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Default Re: Romero vs Levelord

Levelord could drink that punk under the table, hands down!

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Old 07-26-2006, 08:22 AM   #16
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Default Re: Romero vs Levelord

IcemanSimo these are the people responsible for the rise of 3d shooters genre. Romero was the designer for wolfensiten, doom1,2 , quake1
Levelord is the guy that made Duke Nukem and SiN

check these articles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Romero
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levelord

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Old 07-26-2006, 09:38 AM   #17
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Default Re: Romero vs Levelord

Levelord build level once for Chuck Norris, so that every time Chuck roundhouse kicks an object in a LL level, the object bounce back to hit him. Hard.
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Old 07-26-2006, 11:19 AM   #18
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Default Re: Romero vs Levelord

Well, shit! ...I have to vote for Cliff Blesinskiniziski!

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Old 07-26-2006, 11:31 AM   #19
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Default Re: Romero vs Levelord

levelord all the way

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Old 07-26-2006, 11:45 AM   #20
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Default Re: Romero vs Levelord

Quote:
Voted for Levelord, because he's one of the two responsible for the levels of the first pc-game I ever played, Duke Nukem 3D, and by that a major influence on the levels I make myself for jfDuke3D
I agree this.
Voted for Levelord

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Last edited by Antosa : 07-26-2006 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 07-26-2006, 01:31 PM   #21
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Default Re: Romero vs Levelord

Levelord, how does one become a game designer? Should he begin with designing Arena Mode maps?


Levelord facts:
Levelord has two modes. Build & Destroy.
Levelord's tears cure AIDS. Too bad he never cried.
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Old 07-26-2006, 06:48 PM   #22
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Default Re: Romero vs Levelord

I enjoy Mr. Bleszinski's work very much. I had to check Wikipedia to see if I got his name right. God, I loved the original Jazz Jackrabbit. That was practically the reason I began gaming in the first place as a kid.
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Old 07-26-2006, 08:52 PM   #23
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Default Re: Romero vs Levelord

If I can recall correctly, if it wasn't for Romero and Doom, Richard wouldn't have gotten a spot in the industry.

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Old 07-26-2006, 09:52 PM   #24
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Default Re: Romero vs Levelord

Romero has a Ferrari. Too bad Levelord stole the engine to power up his new Alienware.
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Old 07-26-2006, 10:20 PM   #25
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Default Re: Romero vs Levelord

it is really cool to see Levelord actually posting in this thread

Blezinski made Unreal right? Hmmm I don't like the Unreal series but I can give actual reasons only for the UTs. The single player Unreals just didn't seem right to me but I can't say why. And before you ask I'll mention the fact that kicks UT out of my list of top multiplayer shooters. On WCG Finals many matches ended with results like 2:1 Well I just can't accept that a good multiplayer shooter can have just 1 frag every 5 minutes with top level players on pro maps.

Jazz is cool but it is not a shooter

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