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Old 06-20-2003, 08:11 PM   #1
wasp_br
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Default No gamepad\\joystick support

Is there gonna be any support for gamepad in the future? I find it rather weird that there's none in the full versoion when there was gamepad support in the demo.

could u guys pls include that in a future patch or at least tell me how to enable it?
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Old 06-26-2003, 06:48 PM   #2
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Default Re: No gamepad\\joystick support

could u at least tell me wether this is gonna be adressed in the patch, pls? or at least tell me how to enable it?
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Old 06-26-2003, 06:48 PM   #3
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Default Re: No gamepad\\joystick support

We have no plans to incorporate joystick support in a patch.
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Old 06-26-2003, 07:18 PM   #4
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Default Re: No gamepad\\joystick support

Quote:
We have no plans to incorporate joystick support in a patch.
No plans to incorporate gamepad support either?
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Old 06-26-2003, 08:00 PM   #5
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Default Re: No gamepad\\joystick support

Both are not supported (both are joysticks).
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Old 06-26-2003, 08:48 PM   #6
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Default Re: No gamepad\\joystick support

Why not?
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Old 06-26-2003, 09:00 PM   #7
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Default Re: No gamepad\\joystick support

There is a variety of Joysticks/Keypads that have some serious bugs with this functionality. Since we can't reliably support the majority of them with this tech we opted to leave it out. Supporting only some would be a bad decision for customer support reasons.
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Old 06-27-2003, 02:43 AM   #8
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Default Re: No gamepad\\joystick support

Also, why would you want to play a FPS with a gamepad or a joystick? The mouse is much more accurate and is TONS faster at turning. If you don't like playing FPS games with a mouse and keyboard, get on some multiplayer games. You'll be schooled by the people with the mice. I have yet to see a gamepad or joystick user play very well.
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Old 06-27-2003, 04:22 AM   #9
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Default Re: No gamepad\\joystick support

Quote:
Also, why would you want to play a FPS with a gamepad or a joystick? The mouse is much more accurate and is TONS faster at turning. If you don't like playing FPS games with a mouse and keyboard, get on some multiplayer games. You'll be schooled by the people with the mice. I have yet to see a gamepad or joystick user play very well.
Well I use a gamepad and am one the top 3 low grav players around. If you care to take me on in ef1 or ef2 i'd be happy to school you. www.lowgravleague.com look me up
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Old 06-27-2003, 04:25 AM   #10
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Default Re: No gamepad\\joystick support

Hey ping I can bind all the keys for the gamepad except for the directional keys on my usb sidewinder gamepad any chance you can help me figure out how to bind the directional pad????

Shaun
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Old 06-27-2003, 09:57 AM   #11
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Default Re: No gamepad\\joystick support

take a look at my keypad before u say anything else that might make you look stupid, OF COURSE I USE A MOUSE.the keypad is just for movement and other stuff.
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Old 06-27-2003, 02:42 PM   #12
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Default Re: No gamepad\\joystick support

Can you generate a config file for that device that maps keys to those d-pad positions? It would be digital, but it should work that way if it mirrors keyboard buttons.
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Old 06-28-2003, 01:53 AM   #13
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Default Re: No gamepad\\joystick support

Although totally unofficial, there is some information that can help people wishing to use a joystick (and trackball or mouse combo) with this game. I don't know if any of this info can be of help to gamepad users though.

Panther XL Messageboard

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Old 06-28-2003, 09:34 AM   #14
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Default Re: No gamepad\\joystick support

I have the same problem as Wasp, I use a logitech wingman and it also will not function with EF2, also my 4th and 5th buttons on my mouse will not work.
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Old 06-28-2003, 09:57 AM   #15
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Default Re: No gamepad\\joystick support

What type of mouse do you have? You need to remap the 4th and 5th mouse buttons. See this thread.
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Old 06-29-2003, 02:56 AM   #16
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Default Re: No gamepad\\joystick support

I've been death/holomatching with my right hand on a Logitech Marble Mouse (optical trackball) and my left gripping "the left side" of a Microsoft Sidewinder Gamepad since the birth of the Q3 engine.

Anyone remember Zen from EF1? There may have been more than one.. but I was most prominent in that game. And now that I've got basic functionality again in Star Trek: Eltie Force II.... with my... yupper.. Microsoft Sidewinder Gamepad USB!... I am prepared to give this game a good go indeed.

I've also been a top csports.net player in SOF II Deatmatch. Only touching a keyboard to type text chat in game. I admin a popular server and see all kinds... it just depends on what gives you, as an individual, real control over your game.

I do not personally agree with the avoidance of allowing the user an interface option to activate a minimal fundamental joystick capability. And simply fine print a disclaimer or statement disavowing customer service/tech support related to anything beyond the standard functionality offered in the game engine.

As long as I got mine working... Wild!

Oh.. here's how I did it and all I can say is that it works for my system and Microsoft Sidewinder Gamepad USB:

Open your "player name".cfg file (located in the base folder) with word pad. Scroll to the following sections (I simply pasted several lines here, so alter only where I indicate:

bind JOY9 "+reload"
bind JOY10 "nextinv"
//
// Cvars
//
seta joy_ybutton "1" <font color="red">&lt;&lt;Add this line </font>
seta joy_xbutton "1" <font color="red">&lt;&lt;Add this line </font>
seta ui_startmap "dm_attrexian1"
seta name "Zen"

Now scroll down to bottom of your config:

seta sensitivity "5.000000"
seta in_joystick "1" <font color="red">&lt;&lt;Ensure this line exists </font>
seta joy_threshold "0.25" <font color="red"> &lt;&lt;From 0.0 to 0.25 (This number could be experimented with, but it feels like using arrow keys response-wise) </font>
//
// Aliases
//

The first 2 lines added "assign" "key functionality" to both x &amp; y axis of directional pad. Now you can go into game menu and assgn these for forward, backward, left and right .. or however you please.

Now... you are there!

Zen [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
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Old 06-29-2003, 07:06 AM   #17
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Default Re: No gamepad\\joystick support

I`m the leader of a small rtcw based mod team, and although I`m a kb and mouse player and have been seen hexen1, I believe strongly in giving players as much choice as possible, in how they set up and play their copy of a game.

after all, having a mentally of "we do it this way, so everyone else should be expected to as well" isn`t going to earn individual people or teams much respect.

so I find it very interesting to see that LGL_SHAUN and celenztah, not only sound like much better players then I am (with my kb and mouse) but also that celenztah has found a fix (to some degree at least) for this game.

I do have a level of respect (no pun intended) for ritual and ef2 is very good in general, but I personally would have the utmost respect (and I guess alot of other people would also) if they at least tried to give more options to the players and (although less important) the mod makers.

I also agree that giving limited support and a disclaimer, is better then not even attempting to give support at all for certain aspects of the game... that is just a cop out imho, since I assume most of these requests we have, could be added into the game if the coders of ef2 took the time and effort to implement them.

we`re not asking ritual to change the basic gameplay or look of the game here, just give us more options and support to tweak it more to our liking... you could even have such options on "advanced" pages of the menu, like you do some of the video settings, so to deter inexperienced players from messing up their configs.
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Old 06-29-2003, 10:42 AM   #18
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Default Re: No gamepad\\joystick support

Well said Ratty. In fact, your post jarred one more little thought 'bout the lack of joystick support in EF2.

The logic behind the lack of joystick report sounded (I may have mis-interpreted) like an effort to avoid an avalanche of tech support inquiries for all the various gamepads and joysticks with different configurations. Oh noooo.. the phones will never stop ringing...

And yet on the other hand.... what do ya suppose the demographics really are here? One gamepad/joystick user for every 500-1000 keyboard and mouse users (speaking in terms of first person shooters)? Obviously, I do not know the real ratio, but the point is.... it would be a greater customer service move to support joystick use for the small percentage of such users than to deny it. Like other tech support departments, once the issue is determined to be that of the joystick in question rather than the EF2 engine, just refer the customer to the joystick/gamepad manufacturer. Since there are few joystick users in the first person world, an even smaller percentage of those users would have joysticks/gamepads with configurations that don't work well with a simple "standard" joystick configured/enabled game.

From a customer service standpoint, this customer was going to hop in a car this morning and drive back to my software retailer and exchange this title... if I didn't happen across a working solution to enable the use of my MIcrosoft Sidewinder Gamepad (one of the more "generically" configured and widely compatible gamepads... easy to support), I would be a customer lost. And my word of mouth wood be, "If you use a joystick or gamepad, forget this game."

I don't know if I made that point very well or not. So here's one last little idea.... release a patch to enable user configurable options in the game menu to activate and configure fundamental joystick operations. And as we have all seen on so many patches and drivers, etc... "This patch is a non-supported supplement for joystick users". In-game joystick support now available, no customer service nightmare.

Voila [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Zen
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Old 06-29-2003, 02:07 PM   #19
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Default Re: No gamepad\\joystick support

thanx celenztah and all your points, do make sense to me (at least) ....especially if someone like you (apparently being a well known gamepad/joystick player) were to of published a review of ef2, before you found a fix to this.

we know by ritualistic`s main page, that they take notice of established websites writing reviews of ritual games ...and imo, it would hurt their potential customer base, if this game had a reputation for being a pain to set up for part of the demographic, even if a small percentage of the overall players.

me personally, being a mod maker (mainly doing level design and texture art) and looking for a new version of the q3 engine, to port our rtcw project over to (partly cus we`ve decided to make it a sci-fi game and not set in ww2 as originally intended)

and we had great hopes for ef2 being the engine version we`d use (based on the reviews and screen shots we`d seen of the game)

but from the pain I`ve been having in doing some of the most basic of developer style cheats in ef2, I`m not likely to recommend this engine version to my team (unless ritual can tell us how to do the stuff we can in all the other q3 engine games)

and as we`re quite well known in the rtcw editing community, it follows on that other less experienced mappers, modmakers etc will think "well if ratty`s team are finding ef2 difficult to work with, we stand even less chance of getting on with it"

so the likely hood is we`ll be porting our mod over to jk2 or 3 (when that comes out)

k, this may not sound at all important to most ef2 players (or even established ef2 mod makers) ...but the big picture here is the project my team are working on, is eventually going to be a demo, which we`re fairly confident will impress the publishing contacts we have in the industry.

we were planning on asking them to buy us a license to the ritual uber tools so we could turn our demo into a full title (stand alone) game, but again it looks like some other developers like raven (who know my mod work from heretic2) will be getting our business in the future.

the bottom line is, if ritual made their games and tools easier for people to set up, then it would surely help them do better as a company, which would give them more money to spend on new projects, instead of laying staff off.

sorry if I`m being arrogant, but this is how I feel, somewhat disappointed with the modified engine, although I think the game is still impressive, but as I spend as much time working with the engine and editing tools, as I do actually playing, for me personally I`ve got to like what I work with, in the same context gamepad/joystick players will want to use input devices they feel most comfortable with.
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Old 06-29-2003, 04:23 PM   #20
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Default Re: No gamepad\\joystick support

rtcw in a sci-fi environment... yeah! Ratty... I hope to hear about that should it see the light of a working demo or full game!

As for EF2, I got it to work for me and coulda just butted out and played on. It still just sort of bugs me that a potentially very popular game would opt to leave out joystick support. I personally do not buy pc games that I can't comfortably control and achieve a relative degree of mastery in. I eat crow and the game stays out of my life and I move on to what I can work with.


Makers of games understand that players tend to stick with methods of game control that they have learned and work well for them. Sort of like how it is difficult to learn a new language as an adult, unless a person just has to.... they are not going to undertake learning a new language to enjoy something that already has oodles of worthy competition already in their native language.

If there is deemed to be a large enough segment of gamers using joysticks in first person games to predictably cause much time and resources and expense in catering to these "fringe" users... It simply seems illogical to decide that the lost sales (those who do not care to learn a whole new language) from this segment would be a more cost effective loss than the expense involved in maintaining support.

And I wonder how customer service will deal with the calls from those who purchased the game expecting it to have same or similar functionality as EF1? "How do get this to work with my joystick?" "It won't?" "How do I return the game?"

By the way, the game plays smooth as butter like EF1 did... with my Gamepad &amp; Trackball "strange" way of playing. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

I think there is truly only a tiny segment of gamepad/joystick users in the fps world. Let 'em have their support and on their behalf I will say that "most" of them will have no need to call you for help. And if "some" of them do, even to the extent that you break even in terms of sales profit vs customer service expense... you've fostered good will and demonstrated a sense of responsibility to the gaming public.. your consumer. That is if reputation has anything to do with how well a product might sell. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Anyway.. I flunked "concise 101" and am known to enjoy a good rambling on occassion.

EF2 will provide some great experiences for gamers, just let those who actually use "gaming" peripherals... use 'em. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 06-29-2003, 06:47 PM   #21
ratty_redemption
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Default Re: No gamepad\\joystick support

celenztah, thanx and it`s mainly sp we`re working on atm, but hope to include mp for the full game.

and as far as themes go, it`s the zombies, cyborgs, and concrete bunker style architecture, that we are mainly keeping from wolf, not the germans vs allies theme.

although we will have soldiers (likely all on the same side, fighting against the zombie army) ...but all the new textures and models were making look more like jk2 atm, so it`s kinda a cross of genres, and we`re definitely aiming it at a mature age of player as we want it to have lots of blood n guys in it, being the sick bunch we are [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

back on topic... if the ef2 tech support teams used confirmed solutions discussed in these forums, it could save them time n money, yes?

I have a pet hate of phoning up or emailing tech support lines, then having to explain stuff to them about their product, which they hadn`t previously been informed of by their employers, which I`d discovered or heard from other users and wanted a solution to.

when the full game of heretic2 first came out (which used the q2 engine) my fellow mod makers and I found several sound bugs in the sp game, we reported this to raven, who confirmed the bugs had slipped through their quality tests... but to our annoyance, the following patches of the game didn`t contain a fix, and we had to ask the lead coder for help, which give him credit, he found and gave my coder friend the lines to fix which we did for our mod.

apparently the reason the bugs weren`t fixed during the patch development was raven had spent all their allocated money for qa, and couldn`t ask them to test "new fixes" which we thought was absurd.

saying all that, I do feel for teams like ritual and raven having to deal with external qa teams, who apparently get paid a lot of money, but still let the most seemly obvious of bugs through to the public release.

unfortunately one day my mod/dev team may have to deal with qa teams... but I`d much rather have online players provide testing and feedback, since professional qa teams apparently can`t be trusted to do a very good job imho.

and players seem to care more about the games, since they are going to be the ones buying them, rather then getting paid to do bug hunting... iow, I think the incentive of qa teams is the wrong way round, as they get paid if they find bugs or not.
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Old 06-29-2003, 08:13 PM   #22
DeXter
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Default Re: No gamepad\\joystick support

Quote:
I've been death/holomatching with my right hand on a Logitech Marble Mouse (optical trackball) and my left gripping "the left side" of a Microsoft Sidewinder Gamepad since the birth of the Q3 engine.

Anyone remember Zen from EF1? There may have been more than one.. but I was most prominent in that game. And now that I've got basic functionality again in Star Trek: Eltie Force II.... with my... yupper.. Microsoft Sidewinder Gamepad USB!... I am prepared to give this game a good go indeed.

I've also been a top csports.net player in SOF II Deatmatch. Only touching a keyboard to type text chat in game. I admin a popular server and see all kinds... it just depends on what gives you, as an individual, real control over your game.

I do not personally agree with the avoidance of allowing the user an interface option to activate a minimal fundamental joystick capability. And simply fine print a disclaimer or statement disavowing customer service/tech support related to anything beyond the standard functionality offered in the game engine.

As long as I got mine working... Wild!

Oh.. here's how I did it and all I can say is that it works for my system and Microsoft Sidewinder Gamepad USB:

Open your "player name".cfg file (located in the base folder) with word pad. Scroll to the following sections (I simply pasted several lines here, so alter only where I indicate:

bind JOY9 "+reload"
bind JOY10 "nextinv"
//
// Cvars
//
seta joy_ybutton "1" <font color="red">&lt;&lt;Add this line </font>
seta joy_xbutton "1" <font color="red">&lt;&lt;Add this line </font>
seta ui_startmap "dm_attrexian1"
seta name "Zen"

Now scroll down to bottom of your config:

seta sensitivity "5.000000"
seta in_joystick "1" <font color="red">&lt;&lt;Ensure this line exists </font>
seta joy_threshold "0.25" <font color="red"> &lt;&lt;From 0.0 to 0.25 (This number could be experimented with, but it feels like using arrow keys response-wise) </font>
//
// Aliases
//

The first 2 lines added "assign" "key functionality" to both x &amp; y axis of directional pad. Now you can go into game menu and assgn these for forward, backward, left and right .. or however you please.

Now... you are there!

Zen [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
Many thanks for your help my joypad now functions correctly. Thanks again [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 07-01-2003, 10:13 PM   #23
wasp_br
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Default Re: No gamepad\\joystick support

Yeah, thx m8, I had lost all hope of ever playing with muy gamepad... You thing just did the trick, perhaps Badman could post this fix so other people with the same problem.

Thx a lot, and ratty good luck with you mods mate, I am looking foward to playing one of them.
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Old 07-14-2003, 11:44 PM   #24
Hatswitch
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Default Re: No gamepad\\joystick support

The easiest way to do this is to make an "autoexec.cfg" file in your EF2\base\global directory. Here's the joystick/trackball portion of my mine:

//Joystick Settings
seta in_joystick "1"
seta joy_threshold ".5"
seta cl_run "1"

//Trackball Settings
seta in_mouse "1"
seta m_side "0.25"
seta m_forward "0.25"
seta m_yaw "0.022"
seta m_pitch "-0.022000"
seta sensitivity "30"
seta freelook "1"

//Axis Bindings
bind UPARROW "+forward"
bind DOWNARROW "+back"
bind LEFTARROW "+moveleft"
bind RIGHTARROW "+moveright"

//Unbind Rudder and Throttle Axis
bind JOY18 ""
bind JOY19 ""
bind JOY20 ""
bind JOY21 ""

//Comment
echo "CH F-16 FighterStick USB + KEMP loaded"


After this is done, you can bind all buttons/keys in-game.

I am a member of clan [A3D]; we all use joystick/trackball combinations of some sort (I'm also a member of a Wolfenstein clan). The concept is quite simple: the joystick is used for movement, and the trackball is used to look around. Generally, people assume that when you mention a joystick that you use only a joystick. That would be difficult, indeed.

When the demo for this game came out, I had to figure out a fix for joystick support quickly. Suprisingly, I actually had to add "exec autoexec.cfg" to the main configuration file to get it to work. Luckily, the final version had no such difficulties.

Joystick support is actually there in a lot of games, but the developers don't necessarily make it easy to enable it. Unreal II requires editing config files, not only to enable the joystick, but to bind keys for it as well.
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Old 07-14-2003, 11:52 PM   #25
kAmALA
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Default Re: No gamepad\\joystick support

i play FPS with a steering wheel, i cant believe ritual didnt add
support for it.
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