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Old 02-12-2003, 02:31 PM   #1
MadOnion
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Default NO BUNNY HOPPING IN CZ!

OMG! RITUAL PLEASE RESPOND! IS THIS TRU? I DO NOT WANT TO CANCEL MY PRE-ORDER [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]
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Old 02-12-2003, 03:12 PM   #2
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Default Re: NO BUNNY HOPPING IN CZ!

They didn't remove strafe jumping from EF so i doubt they'd remove that.
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Old 02-14-2003, 01:51 AM   #3
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Default Re: NO BUNNY HOPPING IN CZ!

i have no doubts that you're a liar. of course ritual didnt remove strafe jumping from EF, they didnt make the game. raven did. with that said, ritual is making EFII and only god knows what kinda changes were made to the game. getting back on topic, only god knows what kinda changes were made to CZ. I want an official response. Bunny Hopping: Yes or No? and why?
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Old 02-14-2003, 04:06 AM   #4
Castle
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Default Re: NO BUNNY HOPPING IN CZ!

Remove what?

What is going on here?
Bunny Hopping in half life?

Iím not exactly sure if this is a joke or not but bunny hopping has always been a freaking joke in Half Life. Iím not sure if ANYONE has actually gained speed from Jumping around on this engine. I assume you think it exists for some reason. More power to ya! LOL
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Old 02-14-2003, 02:40 PM   #5
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Default Re: NO BUNNY HOPPING IN CZ!

There is one sure-fire way to get rid of 'bunny-hoppng'

1) Pull out a gun (preferably a M4A1, G36c or a SG551)
2) Shoulder weapon
3) Pull trigger
*Now hit yourself HARD! You forget to aim you moron!*

4) Aim weapon
5) Pull trigger
*click*
Alright, now I have to put both of you out of your misery!
...
...
*BOOM!*
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Old 02-14-2003, 03:41 PM   #6
The_Squeeze
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Default Re: NO BUNNY HOPPING IN CZ!

Yes bunny hopping use to work a long time ago, and yes you could use it to move faster, but it was eliminated a while ago. Do not know where you have been MadOnion.
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Old 02-14-2003, 04:04 PM   #7
MadOnion
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Default Re: NO BUNNY HOPPING IN CZ!

why is there a penalty for jumping in the CS/CZ engine? i can jump far in real life. i thought the game is supposed to be as realistic as possible. you should be able to make a big leap away from your enemy. maybe not constant hopping to gain speed like bunning hopping, but 1 leap to sorta dodge an enemy would be realistic. after 1 leap the player would fall over.

that makes sense doesnt it? hmm this brings to mind another question. will you be able to lie down on the ground in CZ? this is possible in some other tactical shooter type games. i cant remember what it's called, but you're basically on the ground crawling and that makes it more difficult for you to be hit in some areas
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Old 02-14-2003, 07:26 PM   #8
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Default Re: NO BUNNY HOPPING IN CZ!

speaking of...

Will we be able to go prone/crawl?
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Old 02-15-2003, 08:29 PM   #9
Castle
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Default Re: NO BUNNY HOPPING IN CZ!

Hey whatís up The_sqeeze.
Hows things going?

About strafe jumping. Its not quake 2 or quake 3 style strafe jumping that was in CS at one point. Correct me if Iím wrong but the strafe jump in half life never allowed for acceleration as if the player speed was capped at a certain point.
If that is correct then IMO thatís not really strafe jumping its just jumping around for a tiny little speed increase that isnít really that much of a deciding factor on who wins or loses a fight. Its missing out on being able to jump larger gaps and get to places other people cant which is one of the main things that make strafe jumping so cool.

For me strafe jumping is all about a huge margin of speed increase that allows for trick jumps and all that good stuff. Anyway enough about my personal opinions on strafe jumping.

Maybe I missed out on this a long time ago I believe that at one point or for a short while in CS you could ďStrafe jumpĒ
I never seen what it was like but was it the same kind of ďstrafe jumpingĒ you could do in Half Life multiplayer or was it made to be the real deal?

Hey CptCox

I think I can safely say that chances are if some kind of cool movement like prone or crawling or leaning around corners isnít in CS then it wonít be in CZ. But donít quote me on that because Iím only a level designer and I donít make those kinds of choices. Itís just an educated guess from me to you.

MadOnion
I regret to hear that your good pal NetCatch was resurrected by an act of god however his life was taken from an exploding Disco Bang minutes after he dug himself out of a grave during a completely unrelated fire fight covered completely in smoke. Its to bad that you didnít have a chance to speak with him yet.
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Old 02-16-2003, 10:24 PM   #10
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Default Re: NO BUNNY HOPPING IN CZ!

If the prone/crawling was implemented, I'd expect it to be MP only, with the Server being able to turn it on/off before starting a game.
*hint-hint*
On maps like cs_office, we wouldnt need it, but on some larger, open type maps, it'd be pretty cool.

[edit] Speaking of large, open maps, will we be able to design larger maps than the HL engine currently supports? It really bugs me when you make this great map, load it in-game, and have the engine only able to draw half of it! [/edit]
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Old 02-17-2003, 02:23 PM   #11
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Default Re: NO BUNNY HOPPING IN CZ!

Do you mean larger as in larger open areas or more grid size?
The grid is unchanged and im 99 % sure it will not be touched for many reasons.

From your post it sounds more like your talking about designing larger open areas that tend to overload software mode and cause it to drop surfaces. Software mode is set up so that through command line you are able to tell it how many surfaces you want it to draw.

If you run half life or CS in software mode and want to design levels that have higher r_speeds try starting the game with this command.

+r_maxedges 4800 +r_maxsurfs 1600

Put that at the end of the command you use to start the game.
This about doubles the available surfaces and allows you to make more detailed levels.
This isnt really so much what I would consider to be info on CZ, but rather, it is really just general old quake engine information.

Though I have to admit that software mode might suck up quite a bit more CPU with this set. Tell me what you think
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Old 02-18-2003, 02:38 PM   #12
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Default Re: NO BUNNY HOPPING IN CZ!

Hi Castle, Im doing pretty good. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

As to your question on bunny hopping in CS. I am not sure how fast it was compared to quake or the multiplayer halflife but I know you use to be able to use it to gain quite a speed advantage. It was founded, if my memory serves me correctly by the 4 Kings who started out as a quake team at the time, and used it in CS. Best example I could give is that when it worked I could be in the tunnels on de_dust as CT before the rest of the team even ran through the archway into the open, and thats why they took it out, and so now when you jump you lose speed, if you do it more than once.
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Old 02-18-2003, 04:56 PM   #13
Castle
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Default Re: NO BUNNY HOPPING IN CZ!

Holy cow thats a pretty large speed increase.
the game must have been so different like that.

I wonder what the outcry was like when they took it out. LOL
I bet hell froze over for a few months on forums.
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Old 02-18-2003, 06:21 PM   #14
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Default Re: NO BUNNY HOPPING IN CZ!

Yea it was bad for a while, this was the same time they also took out the fast walk (which is the only thing I missed a lot), changed the accuracy when crouch jumping and quite a few other things.
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Old 04-17-2003, 09:47 AM   #15
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Default Re: NO BUNNY HOPPING IN CZ!

Who cares about speed increases, I just hate games where people constantly jump around like they were wearing springs(ala Q3A). Jumping in real life is both low and slow, and let's face it, for realism's sake, when have you ever seen a counter terrorist squad jumping in real life?
Just a thought.
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Old 04-17-2003, 02:21 PM   #16
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Default Re: NO BUNNY HOPPING IN CZ!

Well, to play devils advocate, CounterStrike's universe is about realism. About 2 or three shots are all that's needed to kill an enemy. The mission objectives and locations are realistic too, you won't find any death ray devices on alien worlds in CounterStrike. So we all agree that CounterStrike is based on realistic combat situations and movement. Except for the jumping. When playing CounterStrike, when you run and jump, on the landing portion of your jump you are slowed down considerably, as if you twisted your ankle.

Being the game design freak that I am, I went outside just now to compare my REAL jumping abilities to that of my character while playing a multiplayer CounterStrike game. I found that I can run, jump, land and run again with smooth transition from each "state" of motion. I do not land as if I broke my ankle and can't move forward. With that said I am not sure if CS:CZ will handle jumping the exact same way.
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Old 04-17-2003, 03:15 PM   #17
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Default Re: NO BUNNY HOPPING IN CZ!

Your next experiment should be attempting to accurately shoot an assault rifle while landing from a 4 foot vertical running jump.
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Old 04-17-2003, 03:25 PM   #18
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Default Re: NO BUNNY HOPPING IN CZ!

oh and while you're doing that put on full combat gear and see how long it takes you to get fatigued from the process.
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Old 04-17-2003, 04:32 PM   #19
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Default Re: NO BUNNY HOPPING IN CZ!

Nice bitching from the designers there [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
Fair point though, especially the aiming thing. Very tricky in a game. e.g. Splinter Cell's aiming sucks, with irritating 'it'll go in this general area' crosshairs, and when there's just a regular sight the bullets should go straight at it. Personally, I'd look to Halo for the perfect aiming system.
But I'm looking forward to CZ on Xbox Live (with the level playing field of a control pad).
Just please don't put auto-aim in...
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Old 04-17-2003, 05:39 PM   #20
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Default Re: NO BUNNY HOPPING IN CZ!

Honestly, I did carry a a big log from my firewood, two water bottles in my pockets and a backpack with books in it.

I started running slower after 5 minutes of running sprints and jumping across my lawn. Shall I record my change in velocity too?
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Old 04-17-2003, 06:07 PM   #21
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Default Re: NO BUNNY HOPPING IN CZ!

no but watch how fast you die when guys with ak47's are shooting at you in real-life. or you'll soon realize that jumping isn't the way out a situation when there is crossfire and open fields as in cs (considering the way jumping is now.)

i'm not saying put bunny hopping in (i've seen people do it and there is no way some one could ever do that in real life....NEVER.) but the whole stopping after each jump and the being able to jump again is unrealistic. the inertia alone would carry someone forward even if they did break there ankle... i mean come on this isn't basketball with jump stopping!!!
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Old 04-18-2003, 12:38 AM   #22
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Default Re: NO BUNNY HOPPING IN CZ!

Not even sure if we are seeing eye to eye here. I think the jumping in CS multiplayer isn't realistic and more importantly is not fun for gameplay. The jumping is pretty useless accept for jumping onto crates and shit. Which I don't think is a good thing to do because you are limiting your paths of escape if you jump onto a collection of crates in a corner. I think there should be better jumping capability without it getting annoying like bunny hopping.

I'm not saying I think that's a good tactic while fighting, I'm just commenting on how I figured CS multiplayer was supposed to mimic realism and I find that it could be improved in the jumping department. As you said... there will be momentum carrying a person forward after they make a running jump. It would be nice to see that happen in the game so someone could make a lucky escape once in awhile.
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Old 04-18-2003, 01:32 AM   #23
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Default Re: NO BUNNY HOPPING IN CZ!

Hmm. Maybe a dive for avoiding bullets, and a fast climb function for crates and the like, with a low jump for general purpose. Or am I just a fool?
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Old 04-18-2003, 02:58 AM   #24
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Default Re: NO BUNNY HOPPING IN CZ!

yes the current build of cs jumping blows...and i doubt it'll change..
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Old 04-18-2003, 10:28 AM   #25
bigwilk
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Default Re: NO BUNNY HOPPING IN CZ!

Er...are you animating CZ zoso? Surely you'd be able to do something if that were the case?
What I'm seeing from this thread is that very little in the game mechanic will be changing (fair enough, given the popularity), but nothing's perfect first time...
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