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Old 04-11-2006, 04:39 PM   #1
carbon
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Default Mapping Questions

Alright, this is for devs.

I've got the sin editor (yeeesh!) which looks to be a modified version of GTKR, but have a few questions reguarding core issues.

i have the textures working in sined via extraction from the gcf file, which actually look like it contains more than the original textures from the sin disk (thx ritual [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

why were textures done in .swl format?
what is .swl format and how do i make textures in that format so they are usable?

is there gtkradiant support for Sin other than the SinEd? I'd like to use 1.4.0 just because it has a lot of features not found in SinEd.
Is this possible and how?

What is the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?

TIV

I love you all. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

edit: also, some info, i'd like to port a lot of my maps to sin dm, which means a lot of texture find/replace. why is the find and replace so crazy in SinEd?
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Old 04-11-2006, 05:43 PM   #2
Xenogenetic
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Default Re: Mapping Questions

eww who would map for anything but the Source engine? Source mapping is the best and Hammer is so beautiful, I will never go back to SiN or cs1.6 [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].
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Old 04-11-2006, 05:47 PM   #3
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Default Re: Mapping Questions

Cool stuff, looks like you've made some good progress!

The swl format is "Sin WAL" format, in Quake2 engine games, textures were stored as .WAL format, where all the mipmapping information for a single texture was stored in a single file for faster performance. SWL is the SiN version of that system.

You can make .SWL textures using sindata.exe, which comes with the sintools zip (sintools at fileshack). Also, I believe later versions of Wally (Wally Homepage) supported SWL formats too. You typically convert .tga files directly to .swl formats.

I'm not sure about GTKRadiant support for SiN. SinEd had a TON of crazy surface material features that were never integrated to any other Radiant port that I know of, it would have been nice, but it doesn’t look like anybody took on the challenge.

Airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow? Answer http://www.style.org/unladenswallow/
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Old 04-11-2006, 06:10 PM   #4
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Default Re: Mapping Questions

Quote:
Originally posted by Xenogenetic:
eww who would map for anything but the Source engine? Source mapping is the best and Hammer is so beautiful, I will never go back to SiN or cs1.6.
oh? where's the link to your source maps? i'm sure we'd all like to see them.
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Old 04-11-2006, 06:17 PM   #5
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Default Re: Mapping Questions

ParadoX,

:P i guess that feature was in wally the whole time and i never saw it. i suspected it was similar to wal based on the Q2ness of the game engine.

ok figuring out the hotkeys, most of which are the same as gtkr. ..
i'm a little lost w/ the texture window sharing draw w/ the entity and console window.... it's a nice feature but it lacks a scrollbar in texture mode. other than that, it seems to work pretty well. i'll have to give it a shot on a few maps and see what happens.

thanks a lot. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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Old 04-11-2006, 06:39 PM   #6
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Default Re: Mapping Questions

lol carbon, I don't know why you want to start anything but just for an example a single block in HL2 would look better than anything on the Q2 engine. I am not saying Ritual didn't do good work, I couldn't make a game as fun as SiN on the Q2 engine even now, but come on its been ten years. To prove a point here is a craptastic five minute project I made to prove that lighting makes the map so much better:
www.bspmaps.com/pix/css/test20002.jpg
(ignore the house thing in the back I was testing different texture to see how they acted in HDR and the messed up terrain in the background was from something I just removed)
If you want me to make a map that you can compare to your Q2 masterpieces I am going to be doing a lot of stuff with SiN Episodes that you can flame.

Oh yeah I forgot to ask, where are your maps?
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Old 04-11-2006, 06:57 PM   #7
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Default Re: Mapping Questions

fyi:
1. i didn't start anything. you decided to throw your 'highly valuable opinion' in where it really didn't belong. type 'threadjacking a-hole' into a search engine if you please.

2. a terrain with a skybox around it and an environment light is not a map... it's just someone screwing around w/ hammer.

3. there are no decent deathmatch mods in source to map for yet.... unless getting hit with a flying toilet on respawn is your idea of fun... i guess i could play cs, but i'm not 13 years old and don't have a microphone to scream obscenities into, or call everyone cheaters.

4. hammer is a buggy peice of crap.

5. maps can be found at various places. i'm not in a linking mood.
quakeworld.nu
www.free-fall.net
www.dmc-central.com
carbon.fragsmack.com
www.nexuiz.com

isn't it nice to flame in forums? it's nice to feel 'important' isn't it? you're very 'important'. *pats Xeno on the back*
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Old 04-11-2006, 07:13 PM   #8
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Default Re: Mapping Questions

I didn't flame at all, nor did I find your maps on any of those websites. I know that wasn't a map that was to show that Source tech is better than Quake 2 tech, which is what I originally stated. Why aren't your maps on your own site? Why do you want to make mapping a competition, I do mapping for fun not rim jobs. I don't know how I stole your thread with one sentence, you have certainly turned it into that though. Have you even looked at some of the custom DM mods for Source? They are some really good ones out there, and I like how you made fun of Counter-Strike, the number one most played game on Steam. I don't know how Hammer is buggy, I must have the messed up version that doesn't crash and delete my brushes like Radiant kept doing to my 1.6 maps. Thats all I have to say, I don't think I will read this thread anymore.
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Old 04-11-2006, 07:26 PM   #9
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Default Re: Mapping Questions

Xeno, I hope that's not how you welcome everyone into the community. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] ... what would posess you to make such a negative reply post like that?

Sin MP was just re-released on Steam and hopefully there's going to be a lot of interest in it along with Emergence (of course).

Carbon is a mega-talented texture artist and mapmaker, he's done things with quake/hl/nexiuz engines that are amazing and his texture work shows up all over the place years later.

He's interested in contributing to the community, and it was rude of you to jump in with such a disparaging comment, especially as you pointed out, the tech is years from what's current.

Take care,
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Old 04-11-2006, 08:06 PM   #10
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Default Re: Mapping Questions

Great to see some people taking interest in doing things for Original SiN! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I love that people still support games that have been out for years, it is also a great way to really learn about all the different tools that are out there for various games as well. Course I am also the crazy man who enjoys downloading new .wad for Original DooM maps and mods lol.

I cant wait to see what you do with it [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 04-11-2006, 09:01 PM   #11
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Default Re: Mapping Questions

Quote:
Originally posted by Xenogenetic:
eww who would map for anything but the Source engine? Source mapping is the best and Hammer is so beautiful, I will never go back to SiN or cs1.6 [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].
Uncalled for. Period.
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Old 04-11-2006, 09:09 PM   #12
carbon
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Default Re: Mapping Questions

i really have to appologize for that... and i'll tell you why:

i've seen this arguement before, on mapcenter forums, and in a few other places. a mapper / coder / texture artist, etc... posts something simple like
'how do i do this in an editor for such and such game'
and they get totally flamed and laughed out of the fourms by people with responses like 'why would you want to? why not just map for source?'

it's demoralizing from a developer's point of view when their work gets pretty much shot down before it even gets off the ground because people feel the need to downplay anything that isn't source. i don't like source games specifically because they don't offer good Deathmatch... old school airmove bunnyhopping rocketjumping DM isfun to me and no matter how pretty a game engine is, if the gameplay lacks then it simply isn't fun. if you like it, well good for you!

personally, i like the Quake style look and feel to mapping and gameplay.... the maps take very little time to compile, but more, that they are easily downloaded in Deathmatch and Arena, as opposed to Source maps which seem to take forever even w/ url_download bc of their size.

it may be your opinion that Source is better than any other game engine, and many people would agree with you. being from a Quake rather than CS background, i happen to believe the Doom3 / Q4 game engine and gameplay is a lot better. The look and feel of both of those games imo blows the doors off of anything in Source. We all have opinions. Hopefully Emergence will change my opinion on Source gameplay. we'll see.

so, sorry if i snapped at you, but it's a never ending arguement... not everyone thinks Source is the 'bees knees', not everyone plays Counterstrike, and it might suprise you to know that there are still people making mods for Quake, Quake2, and HL dispite their 'antiquity'

btw Xeno the site is new. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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Old 04-17-2006, 07:16 AM   #13
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Default Re: Mapping Questions

I agree with you that the sorce engine is lacking a good, fun, hectik DM game, but the Engine itself is still very VERY nice. The Engine is not to blame for the lack of DM. Infact, I hope ritual work on a DM game which will come with future Sin Episodes, or even as stand alone, for Source.

Although Xeno was uncalled for, and it was VERY unkind of him to do that. How would you feel if asking a question about mapping, and I just put you down by saying/advertising a (tech wise) better engine?
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Old 04-17-2006, 07:55 AM   #14
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Default Re: Mapping Questions

Does anybody where I can get a Sin fgd file for worldcraft/hammer?
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Old 04-17-2006, 08:36 AM   #15
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Default Re: Mapping Questions

Sin is modified Quake 2, so hammer won't work with it whatso ever.
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Old 04-17-2006, 09:10 AM   #16
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Default Re: Mapping Questions

If you do maps for Sin, i would certainly like to see and test them, i hope we see something soon from you. Do it, and share it with others, what more can i say, oh and welcome to forums. And don't pay too much attention to some "attention whores" in this forum [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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Old 04-17-2006, 01:36 PM   #17
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Default Re: Mapping Questions

Quote:
Originally posted by RabidZombie:
Sin is modified Quake 2, so hammer won't work with it whatso ever.
yes i know SiN is not compatible with current versions of hammer.
but the original WorldCraft (before the name change) was compatible with quake1, quake2, Hexen 2 and SiN

Qoole also supported SiN but it was only basic
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