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Old 05-11-2006, 08:12 PM   #1
David_Grove
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Default Intense combat, or insane combat?

Okay, first off I'll start by saying that the game is fun, but also very irritating. This in no way means that I'm going to give up on it. But things have been getting to me about it. I'll list those in a moment. Just so that everyone knows my difficulty bar is a little less than half way up, so when I list these keep in mind and wonder about the higher up difficulties.

1. Seven enemies with Gatling guns along with their allied floating sentry turrents, against two people, one with a pistol, the other with an assault rifle, doesn't that seem like a bit much? I'm up for a challenge and all, but its just frigging overkill there. Especially since there's no cooking a grenade (holding it back a second or two) or rare health drops and your scattergun being close to useless outside of point blank range. Even then its questionable as I've pumped five shells into a guy and he didn't drop.

2. The enemies seem to know where you are, always exactly where you are. There's no sneaking behind them in combat what so ever. Like if Jessica is firing at the gatling gun man relentlessly, I go behind him to stir things up, he instantly turns around to face me after I pop out from behind the pillar or something. -- Or in the case when I was fifty yards away and underwater, they still knew exactly where to shoot.

3. Is it me, or does it feel like these guys have pin-point accuracy with any gun their carrying, most of the time? Cause the moment I'm able to get shot, I am. Doesn't matter if I'm popping out from behind a corner or swimming 50 yards away from them, they can still shoot me with deadly accuracy.

4. NPCs are not all pre-loaded. This makes things a bit difficult to determine numbers of enemies and also makes it quite frustrating too. Like say you [i]know[I/] there's an enemy around the corner, you chuck a grenade against the wall, it lands right where the enemy would be, goes off, then nothing... Walk around the corner and the guy spawns to gun you down. For me that feels more of an unfair advantage against you than you already have when running away from seven guys with mini-guns.

5. Weapon power is also an issue here. I've unloaded clips of assault rifle ammo into some guys and they don't fall. Running up to an enemy and firing four shotgunshells in the head at point blank range? Instant death... to the player. I don't even attempt melee as in the earlier part of the game I bashed a guy three times before he was down. The scatter gun spread is also extremely high rendering it useless at mid-range combat for the most part.

These are all able to be gotten around, but overall things I honestly don't like running into because the situation is near impossible to deal with since there are so few health drops.
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Old 05-11-2006, 08:26 PM   #2
Riddled
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Default Re: Intense combat, or insane combat?

1. Agreed, but in my case 12 chaingunners.
2. Agreed, they use wallhacks and radar.
3. Agreed, they shoot through the map like it never existed.
4. Agreed, sometimes if I'm fast enough I witness them teleporting in.
5. Agreed, the chaingunners have no real weaknesses except inc grenades which run out very fast.

I have a hunch your in the very final stages of Supermacy Tower, expect to die at least 50 times if not more. Especially if you messed with the sliders at the beginning.
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Old 05-11-2006, 09:09 PM   #3
David_Grove
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Default Re: Intense combat, or insane combat?

You couldn't be anymore right. I'm in the cubical area. God that place is pissing me off. And there's a constant respawn point behind me as well so it makes things far worse. not to mention I don't even have a spare full clip for the assult rifle, one grenade in the rifle, and the fact that I barely have enough ammo for one and a half clips in the pistol. I don't even bother attempting to use the scatter gun unless I'm desperate.

And the guys with chainguns, It takes two grenades. How do I know this? I watched one blow up right at the guys feet. He didn't even flintch!

My personal opinon; the enemies can keep their damage acceptability, but you (Ritualistic) have to make it so that when the chain gunner is shot at point blank with a shotgun that they are at least thrown off so that they aren't constantly shooting straight out you but forced to veer off because of the force that they're being hit with.

Edit: I haven't used cheats in this game out of my dedication as an originall SiNner, but at this point I'm extremely tempted just to get through this one area. Luckily I keep the death count from sky rocketing by using quickload when my health reaches 15 or 10. I figure by that point its inevitable what's going to happen, wether it looks like I'm in the clear or not.

Edit 2: Another place that bugged the hell out of me was the docks. Here's why: http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/558...t0200006rc.jpg (Might be considered a spoiler... but not really.)
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Old 05-11-2006, 09:24 PM   #4
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Default Re: Intense combat, or insane combat?

I'm in the same boat. Basically it looks like as long as you stay in an area, they spawn in. There's no "killing all of the enemy" because they constantly regenerate.

I think this is my F up because I turned off the "help" mode in the game. I didn't want it to get too easy. I wanted a steady progression of difficulty until the end. Syntek tower, the slope of the difficutly took a steep rise. I wouldn't mind if I could find health or ammo or if there were weapon powerups.

Secondary shotty has next to no affect on chaingunners, secondary pistol, takes 2 shots to take them down. 2 'nades from the assault rifle and a clip from the magnum. When they explode, they don't do much damage to their pals so, getting them into a group is only useful with the incendiery grenade.

You want to see wall hack? In the cubicles, they shoot you accurately through the partition walls.

Honestly, I probably need to go back and turn on the dynamic difficulty levels and start over. I just feel I'm pretty close to the end.



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Old 05-11-2006, 09:30 PM   #5
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Default Re: Intense combat, or insane combat?

Hmm... glad I decided not to pre-purchase. Sounds like Ritual screwed it up again.
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Old 05-11-2006, 09:31 PM   #6
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Default Re: Intense combat, or insane combat?

I had a lot of trouble in the part you're talking about. I finally beat with a save 3/4 of way through around 50 health and very little ammo by hightailing it out of there (and even this took a couple tries). It was a lot less frustrating than killing an endless supply of chain gunners, which are more apt to appear (I think) if you get good at killing them.
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Old 05-11-2006, 09:33 PM   #7
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Default Re: Intense combat, or insane combat?

I beat the game, do you newbies know what headshots are? A little warning though is that because of the dynamic difficulty I don't think they place all the NPCs in the map, they use an NPC spawner and sometimes NPCs spawn behind you, something that is really annoying. ANDDDD probes can go through this one wall in the SiNtek building which is really [censored] annoying.
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Old 05-11-2006, 09:43 PM   #8
David_Grove
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Default Re: Intense combat, or insane combat?

Quote:
Originally posted by Xenogenetic:
I beat the game, do you newbies know what headshots are? A little warning though is that because of the dynamic difficulty I don't think they place all the NPCs in the map, they use an NPC spawner and sometimes NPCs spawn behind you, something that is really annoying. ANDDDD probes can go through this one wall in the SiNtek building which is really [censored] annoying.
Trust me, I know all about headshots. However the guns don't allow much forgiveness if the rectical isn't pointed right at the enemy's forehead. Even then its iffy because they might have a helmet on. Its difficult to take the time to aim for the head when you're surrounded by bloodthirsty enemies chaingunning you when you've got 60 health and it seems like a single bullet from them can take 5 points and they fire off 2 rounds a second each. Not exactly the best time to try and mark up your headshot count. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

I realized early on that you CAN shoot through walls, but I think that's a nice feature, so long as you aren't able to rip through a concrete pillar or a thick metal wall of course. They did an okay job with that, but they should make the bullets stray slightly when they exit through, make it a touch more real.

Edit: Richocet (sp?) would be nice too. I'm not talking just the shotgun's secondary fire, I'm talking all the guns. Or at least the magnum. If there's a steel wall there, your enemy is around the corner and you hit that wall at just the right angle, you can save yourself a few good health points you'll probably need later.
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Old 05-11-2006, 09:50 PM   #9
David_Grove
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Default Re: Intense combat, or insane combat?

Quote:
Originally posted by MadHatter:
Hmm... glad I decided not to pre-purchase. Sounds like Ritual screwed it up again.
Actually, I'm really glad to have the game. Its just that they need to tone down the combat a touch is all. Other than that I'm sitting here salivating over Jessi- I mean the game.
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Old 05-11-2006, 09:54 PM   #10
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Default Re: Intense combat, or insane combat?

Yeah, it's been worth every penny and I'm glad I'm back in the Sin universe. I'm simply reporting my issues which very likely are self induced (difficulty wise anyway).

My one disappointment is not seeing more "Alexis Sinclair" in the flesh. I always liked how she dropped in at times in original Sin.

I think SanPedro's comment's important. I noticed if I rushed an area, there were alot fewer enemies. I like a deliberate pace but, that seems to invite respawned enemies.
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Old 05-11-2006, 09:55 PM   #11
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Default Re: Intense combat, or insane combat?

Xenogenetic, you are in the vast minority. Threads like this are important, because the vast majority of casual players shouldn't have to go to the gym 6 times a week to build up their reflexes for playing a video game. Although hmm, maybe Ritual was planning to start the Sin Episodes weight training program?

On the same token the game was WELL worth the money (and by the way- people are complaining about difficulty and not much else!)- after you fight at the tower for a while you start to get the rythym of fighting the chaingunners, they're a lot easier to me now. I recommend for people who are super-frustrated to play god mode to learn some of what comes so naturally to Xenogenetic.
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Old 05-11-2006, 10:17 PM   #12
Moleculor
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Default Re: Intense combat, or insane combat?

Notice About The Personal Challenge System
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Old 05-11-2006, 10:45 PM   #13
David_Grove
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Default Re: Intense combat, or insane combat?

Quote:
Originally posted by djbell:
Xenogenetic, you are in the vast minority. Threads like this are important, because the vast majority of casual players shouldn't have to go to the gym 6 times a week to build up their reflexes for playing a video game. Although hmm, maybe Ritual was planning to start the Sin Episodes weight training program?

On the same token the game was WELL worth the money (and by the way- people are complaining about difficulty and not much else!)- after you fight at the tower for a while you start to get the rythym of fighting the chaingunners, they're a lot easier to me now. I recommend for people who are super-frustrated to play god mode to learn some of what comes so naturally to Xenogenetic.
That's the basic gist of what I'm saying. I'm generally a pretty good First Person Shooter gamer, FEAR, Half-Life 2, Half-Life 1, Quake 2-4, SiN (original), Serious Sam 1-2, Global Operations, Red Faction 1-2, Unreal Tournament/Champion 2, Deus Ex 1-2, and the list goes on. But thus far I've had more difficulty with this than I have any other game and it really gets to you.
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Old 05-11-2006, 11:12 PM   #14
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Default Re: Intense combat, or insane combat?

It is all strategy! Bottleneck 'em.

EDIT:
At some points I started shooting the enemies' feet and letting myself get hurt a little so the challenge would go down for the real hard parts, I guess I was cheating the system.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, I just kicked ass at CS, some people could think of the personal challenge system as some sort of videogame training.
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Old 05-12-2006, 12:01 AM   #15
David_Grove
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Default Re: Intense combat, or insane combat?

Quote:
Originally posted by Xenogenetic:
It is all strategy! Bottleneck 'em.

Tried that. Its kinda hard to bottle neck them when you've got a constant spawn point behind you that you've gotta look out for.
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Old 05-12-2006, 01:26 AM   #16
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Default Re: Intense combat, or insane combat?

hmmm. i died alot but did not get frustrated.

chain gunners: 2 shots with shotty aimed to the head
or zoomed machinegun to head: 10bullets
or machinegun 2nd fire directly to the head: 1 hit !!!! but u must
really aim with the 2nd on the head and hit.

since the chainers need a little time b4 starting to shoot this is the
time to finish off other grunts and to grenade away.
then close in with the shotty.

i had troubles in the spawning sections too. but 2nd time u know
u have to push things forward.

apart from that: stop making headshots, stop using grenades, run around crying like a little baby and the game WILL adapt. worked
for me.

and......save alot so u can get back to 100%health.

just my 2 cents
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Old 05-12-2006, 04:40 AM   #17
BoogieKnight
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Default Re: Intense combat, or insane combat?

I don't mean to name call, but it seems like all the complaining is coming from noobs. I don't care if you played every FPS on the planet, it doesn't seem like you've played them on anything but the easiest difficulty setting if you think this game is that hard. I chose to play with half-way between casual and extreme on both sliders, the game is just about perfect for me on challenge.

You don't need reflexes of steel to make headshots. Just keep your aim a litlte higher than chest area..shoot regular soldiers in the leg a couple times to put them down and out for a couple seconds. Use cover. Use every weapons primary and secondary fire to their fullest. The mini-gun toting cyborgs are cake with the assault rifle from range (their weapon is very inaccurate, you can stand still and zoom in popping a few shots off and then alunching a secondary grenade and not even get hit more times than not if you're far enough away that they seem about the size of a shot glass on your screen).

Better yet, one incindary grenade takes care of them pretty quickly and if not a few extra rounds to the head from your VERY accurate magnum does the job. Those are honestly the only enemies I found to be somewhat troublesome. Everything else was dead too fast to bother me. The more enemies the merrier, grenades, and 2ndary shotgun blasts take care of them.

Key point, dont try and horde your secondary shells, the more I used the more I got (in the tower I would always fire at least 2 grenades from the assault rifle at groups of 2 or 3 mini gunners). Before I started doing that secondary ammo for the assault rifle seemed difficult to find for me. I think the game gives you what you use.

Finished hte game with 12.43 deaths per hour -- that doesn't feel unreasonable to me. I'm sure if Quake 4 and FarCry could record deaths per hour (taht I know of) it would be similar.
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Old 05-12-2006, 05:33 AM   #18
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Default Re: Intense combat, or insane combat?

I finished with 20 deaths per hour.
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Old 05-12-2006, 10:24 AM   #19
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Default Re: Intense combat, or insane combat?

Quake4 and FarCry and pretty much every other FPS were a walk in the park compared to this. Where I'm playing right now, it's all gattling dudes and no peons so, there are no ammo drops to speak of. There's no health drops. It's tight so, there's no standoff to pick them off one by one. They respawn back into areas I just cleaned out so, I can't go back and reload and settle. If they kept coming from in front of me, then I could play some tactics and try to flank but, when I move back and around, new ones pop up right in my face in areas where no real enemy could pop back up.

In most FPS's, the difficulty ramps but, the weapons effectiveness ramps with it.

When I play online, I'm typically in the top 4-5 players (out of 20-30). Not the best, but no slouch either. Been playing FPS's since original Doom.

The game was designed so everyone gets a different experience, that's what the dynamic difficulty's for. That means any comparision between your experience and mine's probably pointless
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Old 05-12-2006, 10:51 AM   #20
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Default Re: Intense combat, or insane combat?

Yes, exactly. Let's call a spade a spade and not call people who have literally been playing FPS for 14 years noobs. We criticize only because we love, and trust me, we know how to make head shots.
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Old 05-12-2006, 11:08 AM   #21
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Default Re: Intense combat, or insane combat?

I agree, I've been playing FPS since Doom myself, and I also had quite a bit of trouble in the game, although I did beat it. So when you call these guys noobs, you're insulting me as well. Not that you should care though, you haven't met me, but I don't think anyone should be so quick to judge.
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Old 05-12-2006, 12:21 PM   #22
SanPedro
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Default Re: Intense combat, or insane combat?

Quote:
Originally posted by MasterKwan:
Quake4 and FarCry and pretty much every other FPS were a walk in the park compared to this.
I don't know about this statement. Quake 4 was probably a walk in the park compared to SIN, but I found FarCry to be super hard even on medium (maybe I wasn't sneaky enough).
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Old 05-12-2006, 01:05 PM   #23
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Default Re: Intense combat, or insane combat?

at times it's INSANE! Lately, I've started the Highrise Chapter and it;'s INSANE! oh bare in mind I usually have 5 or 1 HP!
I just found the mega healthso I'm 105 HP right now, or till the next Gunner shows up.
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Old 05-12-2006, 01:14 PM   #24
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Default Re: Intense combat, or insane combat?

I'm on my 2nd run through the game now, first time i decided to play at something like 54% on both bars. It became insanely hard as soon as those gatling gunners arrived. Made me wonder exactly how difficult it would be on 100% difficulty.
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Old 05-12-2006, 01:55 PM   #25
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Default Re: Intense combat, or insane combat?

I didn't have too much trouble with it. I nudged the sliders quite a bit to the right, then thought better of it and nudged them back to the left, played with them a bit, forgot where the hell they were originally and found out that they were just a tad or two to the right of the defaults, which works.

My favourite tactic though mocks Boogie's. I absolutely love shooting people in the legs. It's fun watching a room of soldiers hop around with a cocophony of complaints about busted kneecaps. One wonders why they aren't wearing shin armour. Not quite as funny as that gang leader in Fallout though, the one who invited one to a hand-to-hand battle and didn't bother to wear a cup. "I will not let you steal my manhood!" I had actually tried to reproduce this in Emergence but apparently the guards of sensitive knees fear no groinal pain, I have this theory that they've mutated most of their guards into spin-offs of that alien from Star Trek V.

Still, it's real easy to grab a headshot off those unarmoured guys when they're leg-splintered. Not a nice way to go for them, truly but hey, it works. The chaingunners weren't so bad either. A grenade and a couple of Magnum DUAG shots or whatever I had on me usually saw them out.

Of course, the only caveat to my playstyle is that I now hear people yelling "Argh! My leg! MY LEG!" for no apparent reason at all within my nightly dreamscape. That's probably not healthy.

The only time I think I really got frustrated though was with that bloody helicopter at the end but that's a good thing, it helped put it up there with the helicopter greats. I wouldn't have felt satisfied if it wasn't frustrated. It took me too bloody long though to figure out that the chopper's electrical systems would probably be a bit weak to a few good DUAG shots.
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