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Old 05-18-2006, 05:02 PM   #1
Zinfacter
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I woke up today and found a message from one of my buddies. He told me that he had downloaded a HACKED version of SiN:E. I don't know how the hell that's possible, but apparently people are doing it. I thought I should let Ritual know so steps can be taken to stop it. If I have to pay 20 bucks to play, so should everyone else.
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Old 05-18-2006, 05:05 PM   #2
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Did you see it yourself?
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Old 05-18-2006, 05:07 PM   #3
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No, but I don't think the guy's lying to me. I just think this is something Ritual should be aware of.
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Old 05-18-2006, 05:08 PM   #4
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You can get hacked versions of everything. There is literally nothing anyone can do to stop it. I think the best Steam can do is to prevent hacks from being released pre day 0. Ritual know about this, the QA guy posted on his blog about it too
http://www.romsteady.net/blog/2006/0...work-safe.html

Here's a nice little article on piracy
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...php?story=9277

I bet you download mp3s though don't you?
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Old 05-18-2006, 05:09 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by hahnchen:
You can get hacked versions of everything. There is literally nothing anyone can do to stop it. I think the best Steam can do is to prevent hacks from being released pre day 0. Ritual know about this, the QA guy posted on his blog about it too.

Here's a nice little article on piracy
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...php?story=9277

I bet you download mp3s though don't you?
Of course I download MP3s, because I want to hear the CDs before I buy them. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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Old 05-18-2006, 05:10 PM   #6
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WoW
thats ironic i'm sure you have just commited a SIN LOL
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Old 05-18-2006, 06:18 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zerufacter:
Quote:
Originally posted by hahnchen:
You can get hacked versions of everything. There is literally nothing anyone can do to stop it. I think the best Steam can do is to prevent hacks from being released pre day 0. Ritual know about this, the QA guy posted on his blog about it too.

Here's a nice little article on piracy
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...php?story=9277

I bet you download mp3s though don't you?
Of course I download MP3s, because I want to hear the CDs before I buy them. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
And the pirates will say they download the games because they want to play them before they buy them.

I know for certain that SiN E was availble 2 days after it launched on steam. It may have been available sooner though (HL2, Rag Doll Kung Foo and Darwinia were pirated/cracked within days of launching too). The groups that release the pirated software are everywhere, and have suppliers willing to risk losing their jobs to get stuff out early (someone who may work at a retail store, or someone in the chain that the Gold version of the game flows through.
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Old 05-18-2006, 06:54 PM   #8
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I know, for one, that the group, "PROVISiON" or whatever has been cracking Valves releases and 3rd party releases on Steam since before hl2. I've forwarded countless PMs to mods on the Steam forums who forward the websites and operating grounds of said groups, but the response is they can't touch them since they're in Russia apparently. Though, when Tripwire Intereactive made an investigation of their own of the group...they tracked down the location of their leader (MaddoXX) to somewhere in Germany and another country I forget thename of. Maybe Ritual could work jointly with them and possibly Valve to bring at last these guys down?
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Old 05-18-2006, 06:55 PM   #9
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I don't think you understood my post. I DO download music before I buy a cd, not only to preview it but so I can save my cd-rom the strength. Since I usually have stuff delivered anyway...but I don't need to justify myself to you.

Back on topic though, if people think 20 dollars is too expensive and they're pirating games because they're poor, how'd they afford the computer they're playing the games on? Maybe they should stop leaching off of Mommy and Daddy and get a job. Any idiot can make 20 bucks.
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Old 05-18-2006, 08:16 PM   #10
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Well getting a job isn't exactly easy, you see a sign saying help wanted, turn in an application form, and never hear about it again.

I do agree though that stealing is not the answer. Especially with a game worth paying for.
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Old 05-18-2006, 08:22 PM   #11
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i think every game developer knows that his/her product isn't safe, so do you think ritual is so stupid to think it's safe? ....
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Old 05-18-2006, 08:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shoelip:
Well getting a job isn't exactly easy, you see a sign saying help wanted, turn in an application form, and never hear about it again.

I do agree though that stealing is not the answer. Especially with a game worth paying for.
Have you tried calling the employer that you handed the application too? ;p I had problems in the past getting jobs, then I realized that 90% of them expected a phone call from you.
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Old 05-18-2006, 09:10 PM   #13
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its bloody outrageous. I'm sure everyone here will agree that ritual deserve at least the mere $20 for all their hard work. Set the cheap bastards on fire, i say!
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Old 05-18-2006, 10:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by hahnchen:
You can get hacked versions of everything. There is literally nothing anyone can do to stop it. I think the best Steam can do is to prevent hacks from being released pre day 0. Ritual know about this, the QA guy posted on his blog about it too
http://www.romsteady.net/blog/2006/0...work-safe.html

Here's a nice little article on piracy
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...php?story=9277

I bet you download mp3s though don't you?
Hahaha, omg. I just wanted to say that Michael - you're blog was hilarious. I totally understand where you are coming from (I am just as anti-piracry myself, and I'm a consumer), but it's refreshing to see it coming directly from the mouth of those involved. Trust me, I want to smash some balls too.
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Old 05-19-2006, 07:32 AM   #15
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lol, just saw that blog for the first time, michael - if i ever meet any of these wankers i swear to god ill beat the living poo out of them in the name of ritual!
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Old 05-19-2006, 07:55 AM   #16
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Yeah damn right, it really is pathetic [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] The cracker mentality of "if it's cheaper we won't crack it" is just laughable. God damn elitist retarded asshats... grr [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] There is no fitting end for someone as sad as these people - except maybe a freak accident involving a garbage truck tipping over and squashing every one of the mofos into the gloopy little puddle they should be.

I can't imagine what the feeling must be like for Michael and the rest of the guys. Utter rage I would imagine, and totally deserving of Michael's blog comments. Damn I wish we could find these guys - mind you, second thoughts, probably best that we can't [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Bodily harm rates higher than software piracy, this is a problem we need to work on...
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Old 05-19-2006, 07:32 PM   #17
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It's especially unfair in this case since Ritual financed the development of Sin Episodes all by themselves, so they feel the pain of the loss much harder than companies working under a publisher.
Some games don't offer much for the 50 dollars they cost and therefore it's like, "understandable" (yeah right), that someone cracks these games because they think that the game's not worth the money, and they want other people to see that, or to enjoy what can be enjoyed, at a cheaper (free) rate. It's a cheap excuse (if any)... but in the case of Sin Episodes, there's really NO reason to say, "this game is too expensive" or "this game doesn't offer enough for your money" to crack it.
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Old 05-19-2006, 11:45 PM   #18
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Also put into perspective that there are plenty of pirates out there that do so because they truly can't afford it or aren't old enough to procure a credit card. In those cases, the user is not a potential customer anyway.

Then there's the people who have their own moral code and illegitimately try a game before they go out and buy it, as some of you do with music. Umm. I know... a guy that does that. But seriously, I buy literally every single game I play (I did not do this with SE1 because I'm an old school fan and would have bought it even if the reviews were on par with Gigli).

In both of these cases, illegial digital media distribution has a positive effect on purchases and advertising. I think if it were possible to do a LEGITIMATE piracy study that took the above two components (and other positive forces) into consideration, piracy would be found to be a far less serious problem than it's considered by label lawyers. I hate label lawyers.

Sorry about the rant, I was one of the first guys busted for running an MP3 server back during the birth of the Internet so I've done a lot of research and thinking about the issue.

And now that's out of my system-- GO BUY SIN EPISODES: EMERGENCE YOU CHEAP LITTLE BASTARDS!
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Old 05-20-2006, 12:04 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by djbell:
Also put into perspective that there are plenty of pirates out there that do so because they truly can't afford it or aren't old enough to procure a credit card. In those cases, the user is not a potential customer anyway.

Then there's the people who have their own moral code and illegitimately try a game before they go out and buy it, as some of you do with music. Umm. I know... a guy that does that. But seriously, I buy literally every single game I play (I did not do this with SE1 because I'm an old school fan and would have bought it even if the reviews were on par with Gigli).

In both of these cases, illegial digital media distribution has a positive effect on purchases and advertising. I think if it were possible to do a LEGITIMATE piracy study that took the above two components (and other positive forces) into consideration, piracy would be found to be a far less serious problem than it's considered by label lawyers. I hate label lawyers.

Sorry about the rant, I was one of the first guys busted for running an MP3 server back during the birth of the Internet so I've done a lot of research and thinking about the issue.

And now that's out of my system-- GO BUY SIN EPISODES: EMERGENCE YOU CHEAP LITTLE BASTARDS!
Every time I hear arguments that are pro-piracy, I keep thinking back to one of my favorite games of all time, "Incubation: Time is Running Out." It was an amazing game, and sold well enough for an expansion pack.

The expansion pack was one of the first games to use SafeDisc. The expansion pack outsold the original game.

As far as I'm concerned, that's all the evidence I need that piracy hurts sales. The "one pirated copy != one sale lost" is a nice "feel-good" argument, but in this case, it does equal one less meal for my family, one less bill paid, less funding for support, testing, development, level design, art, etc.

So as far as I'm concerned, pirates can go *bleep* themselves up the *bleep* with a big rubber *bleep*, then break it off and beat themselves to death with it.
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Old 05-20-2006, 01:31 AM   #20
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What I like to do to offset piracy is to buy multiple copies. For my favorite book, I have purcahsed about 6 or 7 copies. Some for myself (when the cover gets torn off), and some to give away. I've purchased two of Maddox's upcoming book as well as Tucker Max's. For games, sometimes I bug my brother or friends to buy it, and when they don't, I buy it myself for them. My philosophy about this is that if you enjoy something, you HAVE to support them with your money or they might disapear. I've seen it happen all too often.
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Old 05-20-2006, 12:28 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Michael_Russell:
The expansion pack was one of the first games to use SafeDisc. The expansion pack outsold the original game.

I didn't say piracy didn't hurt at all, I'm just saying that recording industries (games included) are comically silly about how MUCH they hurt.

Incubation is a very popular Safedisc example, which is truly better used to make my point. That game would have NEVER built up the audience they did if it wasn't for piracy. As infuriating as it is that people were stealing their game, it provided guerilla advertising for their expansion. Would they have sold more of the original game titles wit iron clad copy protection? Maybe some small percentage, though for some reason Safedisc and the other copy protection companies can never seem to site site 3rd party market studies, besides their own absurd ones and anecdotal examples. One mathematical fact: Incubation would NEVER have made the kind of sales they did for the expansion (+50% of the original title) if it wasn't for its illegal, underground promotion.

The problem with the dialog is that the recording industries don't take into account the positive factors I mentioned in my previous post, and make believe that every pirated copy is a potential sale. This is so absurd it makes my head hurt. Hong Kong is another rampantly cited example- do you really think the hundreds of thousands of pirates buying Microsoft Windows for a dollar are potential purchasers of a $150 product? C'mon.

I'm as strongly as against theft as you are, I just think it's better to call a spade a spade.
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Old 05-20-2006, 12:56 PM   #22
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Piracy is a hot topic to say the least.

Having been in "the field" for so long has allowed me to watch the debacle in the Federal courts, i.e. "Magnetic media" debates.

The thing that has continued to frustrate me the most however is the 1% factor.

It remains consistent that 99% of the market is honest.
The 1% who are pirates have caused more damage than the 99% can stomach at times.
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Old 05-20-2006, 03:16 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by wisecode:
It remains consistent that 99% of the market is honest.
The 1% who are pirates have caused more damage than the 99% can stomach at times.
Pirates form a lot bigger percentage than just 1%. Most are just casual pirates, who buy some stuff and get pirated versions of others. Maybe there's one or two on this thread who doesn't pirate anything, I know I'm not one of them.
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Old 05-20-2006, 04:12 PM   #24
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We never really know but I am holding out for it to be true at least most of the time.

The 1% factor is more of an understanding, or belief, but it has helped to get the point across that the majority of the civilized world is honest; Fortunately.
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Old 05-20-2006, 04:52 PM   #25
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yeah 1 of my friends brother downloaded a hacked full game version of FEAR for free people should just buy the games and gthem if they are officaly free or somthing not hacked versions of new games god they must be poor...
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