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Old 01-09-2000, 10:59 AM   #1
TooNice
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Default A tech question (CDRW partially related)

I've been waiting for awhile for yamaha to release a 8x Writting CDRW. Not too long ago, my wish was granted and I am now thinking of getting one... I'd like to know if anyone has it and how was your experience with it... If anyone got a few review website, it will very be appreciated too...

I have to decide now wether to get the OEM or the full retail kit (incl software and SCSI interface card).
OEM: $298.60
REtail kit: $350.63
(Price converted from to $ using yahoo currency exchange rate converter, can someone give me the "average" price of those 2 items in the US for comparaison ?)

At first I thought I could get just the OEM and since I got the Asus P2B-LS motherboard (with onboard SCSI card). And in the event that I will need a new motherboard, I thought that I could always get a SCSI interface card cheaply (after all, the price with and without SCSI card is not that big AND another online shop over here offer the value kit (software but no SCSI card) + a SCSI card for an extra 30 only).

Anyway, after making a quick search, I found a shocking news:
2940U2W SCSI Kit PCI
Mfr code: AHA-2940U2W KIT
579 available 220.00
+ TAX : 258.50 ---> $423.84

That look pretty much like the one I got onboard of my motherboard... Except that my motherboard cost only 10-15 more...
WTF I thought... I went to another site, and found that the card costed MORE than my motherboard...

Oh well, now I am stuck... Is it worth getting the full retail kit in case I change motherboard ?

Another question (nothing to do with CDRW), I tried to find more about current ASUS mobo since they are the only ones I know that include SCSI/NIC onboard of some of their motherboard. I went through it quickly and suddenly saw P3C-LS (ATX, Intel 82559 LAN, Adaptec 7892 Ultra 160 SCSI )
Not that I will EVER have enough device to need THAT much bandwith, my question is more about HOW is that possible... I was told that PCI slot allows transfer rate of 133MB/s. So U2SCSI (80M/s), Fibre channel (100M/s ?) no problem.
But that U3SCSI(160M/s) how the hell is that suppose to get the most out of the PCI bus ?

Or maybe I am mixing everything up in which case I'd like to be enlightened...

PS: Thanks for those who bothered to read till the end and forgive any spelling/grammar mistakes... IE5 screwed up and I got some error message earlier followed by everything I typed been reseted about half way through... So I typed this as quick as I could...
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Old 01-09-2000, 04:01 PM   #2
12Gauge TNT
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Default Re: A tech question (CDRW partially related)

TN, get the U2W card. I dont like onboard scsi because it's not transferrable or upgradeable...actually I dont like onboard anything. The 2940 is a nice card. I also have a yamaha 4x4x16 50 pin scsi...it burns full cd's in under 15 minutes. what's even better is that I can play sin while the burn is running without a bad burn! the beauty of scsi...

those prices are about right. get the 8x yamaha and an u2w scsi card and you will not be sorry. try to get at least one 10,000 rpm disk drive for your games too, either a seagate cheetah or IBM deskstar. I have a used cheetah (1/2 price from a dell server) and I'm usually the first to get in a counterstrike server after a map change...even with 56k. now I'm always the first in with my new cable connect. go to fort worth texas' best scsi dealer, www.scsistuff.com, they carry used scsi drives. you could also try using a 7200 scsi drive (cost around 100 bucks used), like a seagate barracuda, as your boot drive. seagates carry 5 year warranties, so dont worry about buying used. about the 160 M/s, I really dont know. all I know is that where scsi destroys IDE is in spin speed (10k/min, soon to be 14k/min) and multitasking drives/devices. ATA66 is nice (I use an ATA66 drive as an MP3 player) but scsi is just faster and more versatile. I like the fact that I can still use my computer while burning cd's...unlike IDE cd burners.

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Old 01-09-2000, 07:43 PM   #3
Ryno
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Default Re: A tech question (CDRW partially related)

Hey 12, what you been up to lately?
You going to Mardi Gras again?
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Old 01-10-2000, 01:32 AM   #4
Stimpy
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Default Re: A tech question (CDRW partially related)

I have used both onboard scsi and scsi cards, and there is no difference. Usually the onboard scsi is the adaptec 7880 which is identicle to the 2940UW which you can get for about $170. If you have a new motherboard it might have the U2W, but unless you have an U2W hard disk, it won't make any difference.
My suggestion is to use the onboard scsi, and if you upgrade your motherboard later to one without onboard scsi, buy a scsi card then. If you are only using it to run a cdrw then you can get a controller for less then $100.

Dr. Stupid
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Old 01-10-2000, 01:52 AM   #5
Stimpy
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Default Re: A tech question (CDRW partially related)

I just checked on asus' website, apparently you mobo does have an U2W controller, in which case shelling out another $400 would be a total waste of money. As for your question about the 160MB/s, the 7892 controller uses a 64 bit pci bus, which is fairly common on high end DEC Alpha and PCI Sun stations. I didn't know they had it for pcs now untill I looked on adaptecs website. Anyway 64bit times 33MHz give 266MB/s.
The 160MB/s is split between 2 U2W scsi busses though, which means that unless you plan on having multiple U2W drives, it won't be any better then what you have now.

Dr. Stupid
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Old 01-10-2000, 02:08 PM   #6
TooNice
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Default Re: A tech question (CDRW partially related)

Thanks.
Well, I goto say that I like my cheetah often seen as one of the slowest SCSI 10,000rpm disk in the reviews I seen so far (much less cache than say the IBM drive etc).
The SCSI card is definitely the reason I am even considering the "full kit" of the CDRW, however I am not sure which SCSI card it comes with...
I also considering a new EIDE hard disk also for Mp3 purpose (kinda waste to use even a gig of my 9.1 SCSI HD for mp3)...
Any advice on a good disk to get ? I could use a large disk for both Mp3 and even watever junk I d/l which is taking most of my HD space at this time...
Are current ATA66 drive compatible with my over one years old motherboard (supporting only ATA33) ? Or will I need to switch motherboard ?

And yes Stimpy my mobo does have a U2W adpater as well as a cheetah which is why I am not sure wether shelling out more $$ for another SCSI card which might become handy however if I upgrade my motherboard with a non ASUS (or any other company with onboard SCSI adapter that I am not aware of).

Are the cheaper controller able to handle my HD and CD-ROM as well ? Right now, I have just those 2 devices, if I had a CDRW that'd make 3 devices and I can't really think of adding anything else in a forseable future (SCSI DVD drive maybe ? Never seen one).
It still seem strange to me that the 2940UW alone cost so much compared to my motherboard...

Anyway one last question: 64bit PCI bus won't be compatible with any of the current "regular" devices such as sound cards etc. right ?

Thanks for the help

Oh yea BTW, the online site I am gona buy my CDRW drive does not specifically tell which SCSI card they throw in the deal for the little extra cash (compared to buying that 2940UW card). Is there usually a catch there ? Is there a specific card CDRW company throws in the deal for the "full kit" ? This is not the first time I saw this (not mention WHICH U2W card).
Eg. they'd say something like
"CDR820Px-PCI Pro E includes PCI SCSI-2 Card, Rec. Software" (quote taken from random website I just came accross at http://www.caloptic.com/).


[This message has been edited by TooNice (edited 01-10-2000).]
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Old 01-10-2000, 05:40 PM   #7
Stimpy
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Default Re: A tech question (CDRW partially related)

If you want a good ide drive, I would suggest an IBM. I got the 7200RPM 20GB drive with 2MB cache for about $190. Any ata66 drive should work just fine on your mobo, it will just function as a 33.
As for your question about cheaper scsi controllers, the adaptec 2940UW will run an U2W Cheetah, but it will drop back to UW speeds(40MB/s). By the way, is your cheetah an U2W? I've used both UW and U2W cheetahs, and the difference in performence is pretty minor. The RPMs seem to make much more of a difference. In fact my old UW cheetah was significantly faster then the new U2W baracuda(7200RPM) that I have on one of the other computers in my lab.

Dr. Stupid
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Old 01-10-2000, 05:52 PM   #8
Stimpy
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Default Re: A tech question (CDRW partially related)

Here I go double posting again. A SCSI 2 card will not run you HD, as it only supports up to 50 pin devices. UW is often referred to as SCSI 3 by the way, in any event don't plan on being able to run a HD on the controller card that ships with a CDRW. You're right about the weird pricing though. When I got my LX MOBO with onbourd UW SCSI, the MOBO cost about $180, and at that time (2 yrs ago)a 2940UW card was about $250. Go figure.
I'm not sure what the deal with the 64bit PCI bus is. It may be that the MOBO supports 64bit pci, but I doubt it. More likely they just made a workaround for the onboard scsi. In any event I believe that 32bit PCI devices will work on 64 bit PCI slots, the slot just operates at the lower bandwidth.

Dr. Stupid
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Old 01-10-2000, 08:36 PM   #9
TooNice
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Default Re: A tech question (CDRW partially related)

Great thanks.
Actually, I found all the term for different SCSI kinda confusing, but just to say,I just call it LVD which is much easier to remember (and which, I am not confused, = Ultra2 SCSI = SCSI 3 = 68pin... I may be wrong).
But my guess is the sustained or even the burst rate of even the fastest HD is, way below 40mb/sec so it doesn't surprise me too much that the both cheetah you tested had similar performance...
However I just found out something, I am using an older generation of the cheetah with only 1 meg of buffer (altho is there a program that can be used to check this and any way to tweak a HD ?).

The one I am using now is http://www.seagate.com/support/disc/...st39102lw.html
The one that got a similar spec but obviously somehow upgraded is http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/...1,229,00.shtml

Oh well....
BTW, how much does the SCSI-3 standlone adapter cost approx and is it possible to use older (50pin) devices with it ?
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Old 01-10-2000, 08:57 PM   #10
Stimpy
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Default Re: A tech question (CDRW partially related)

The 2940UW is the best scsi3 adapter I know of. I believe you can get the bare card for about $150. If you look for the full retail kit at compusa or best buy, it will probebly be about $200. You can get other brands for a lot less, but I can't say anything about their quality, as I have only used adaptec.
And yes, a scsi3 controller will run scsi2 devices such as cdroms very well.

Dr. Stupid
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