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Old 05-26-1999, 11:59 PM   #1
eutectic
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Default Tips and tricks - making vehicles

In Sin, the vehicles_* entities are not just pretty models (not all but a few of them actually), they are special entities in and by themselves.

Some are drivable, some aren't.

You already know the ones which are drivable:

ATV's , bulldozers and forklifts

The ones which are undrivable are:

HC boat and lamprey helicopters

The BAD news about making those drivable is that it's unfortunately not practical. Vehicles respond to gravity so:

- The boat sinks in water
- The helicopter could only be driven around but not flown.

The other vehicle_* entities are just static models BUT they do respond to scriptslave commands (move*, rotate*, followpath, etc).

The GOOD thing about drivable vehicles is that you don't have to do anything special to make them drivable. For example, to put an ATV in your map:

1. Insert the vehicles_atv entity in the map and align the bottom of the bounding box with the floor. This will ensure that the placement of the wheels will be perfect.

2. Insert 2 vehicles_atv_fronttire's in the front of the ATV, also aligning the bottom of the bounding box with the floor and rely on your camera view in Sined to align them perfectly with the axles of the ATV (a 2 unit grid works best for this)

3. Repeat the operation in the back with 2 vehicles_atc_backtires.

Save and compile. You have a fully operational ATV

The idea is that as long as the vehicle and its tires bounding boxes touch, the game will know they belong together and handle the rest automatically.

To make a forklift, just follow the same procedure. Use the same tires as the ATV as they're just about the right size or you can also use the vehicles_humv front and back tires too if you scale them down a bit.

A detail you should know tho is that there's a difference between the front tires and the back tires. The *_fronttire wheels are ALWAYS the ones that steer when you turn so make sure you place those in the front of the ATV and the back tires in the back otherwise your ATV will look silly (doesn't affect its operation tho).

To make your forklifts look more realistic, do the reverse: place the front tires in the back and vice versa. You do know that forklifts have their steering wheels in the back dontcha?

There's also a couple of simple script commands you can use to alter the aspects of your vehicles:

$vehicle steerinplace

This makes the vehicle able to steer without having to move forward or backward. The ATV's and forklifts already have this capability but the bulldozer doesn't (which is kinda silly considering how REAL bulldozers can LITERALLY turn on a dime because the tracks can be operated in opposite directions, anyway...).

$vehicle canjump

The ATV's already can jump but in case you'd like to have "jumping machinery" in your maps. Hmmm... a jumping 8 ton bulldozer. Now THAT's silly... but hey!... could be fun tho

$vehicle turnrate (value)

Don't know if you're like me but I find the ATV's take forever to steer while stationary. You can use this command to make them turn slower or faster. The default for drivable vehicles is 40. I tried 100 on ATV's and I find this makes them much better.

$vehicle vehiclespeed (value)

This of course controls how fast your vehicle can go. The defaults are:

ATV: 600
Bulldozers: 300
Forklifts: 400

One interesting thing about the speed is that it affects the jumping height: the faster your vehicle can go, the higher it will jump (if canjump is enabled of course).

$vehicle setweapon (weapon name)

This will automatically give you the weapon set in the command when you hop into the vehicle. When you get off, you lose the weapon, it "stays" with vehicle. So let's say you make ATV's and use the command:

$atv1 setweapon rocketlauncher

When you hop aboard the ATV, you automatically get a rocket launcher and it will also automatically be visible in the player's view (not normally the case with the weapons you already own).

DM map idea that just popped in my mind: this feature could be used to create a map where all the weapons are with the vehicles. Sorta like a mad max kinda scenario in which you have to fight on vehicles. This is a typical example of how knowing what the game can do can serve as inspiration for map ideas (so study those entities and script commands guys, that's where all the ideas are).

$vehicle showweapon

All this does is that it makes the weapon you own and have in your hands when you hop on the vehicle appear in your 1st person view (does not appear by default). If you switch weapons while on the vehicle, it will also be visible. It simply turns the player's weapon view to "on" while on the vehicle.

One last note:

The canjump, steerinplace and showweapon commands don't have an opposite disabling command so their actions can't be reversed.

Sorry if this was long but I wanted this post to serve as a mini-tutorial on vehicles.

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Old 05-27-1999, 03:52 PM   #2
iceheart
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Default Re: Tips and tricks - making vehicles

I love these tips & tricks posts!

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Old 05-28-1999, 05:07 AM   #3
claudec
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Default Re: Tips and tricks - making vehicles

yeah their great. Be as long winded as you like, eutectic
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Old 05-28-1999, 08:25 AM   #4
Xenyl
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Default Re: Tips and tricks - making vehicles

I made a map with ATVs, and also made a ramp (not a ramp for jumping) which leads in and out of the parking area. The ramp is only about 20-30 degees and the ATVs will not ride up it.

any info?

one more thing, there is plenty of hight cause they can jump up on the ramp to exit and they enter just fine.

[This message has been edited by Xenyl (edited 05-28-99).]
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Old 05-28-1999, 11:57 AM   #5
eutectic
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Default Re: Tips and tricks - making vehicles

Thanks guys

Ok, about the ramp thing...

I did a bit of testing on this and here's the results:

20 - 30 degrees is not a lot indeed and the ATV's can climb much steeper inclines (at least up to 45 degrees and more, haven't tested the actual limit tho).

What I did notice tho is that the bottom of your ramp must be flush with the floor. If there's as little as a 8 unit high step at the bottom of your ramp, the vehicle sees this as a vertical wall and is blocked.

If you want to have natural obstacle - like ramps like a couple of wooden boards such as in the Construction site map from Ritual and it wouldn't look good to make your boards flush with the floor in that particular case (you want the edge to show IOW), then the solution is to place an invisible clip brush at the bottom of the beam to provide a step-less transition between the floor and the start of your ramp.

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Old 05-29-1999, 02:30 AM   #6
Xenyl
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Default Re: Tips and tricks - making vehicles

Thanks
Well it was 1 square off the floor when the grid is at it's smallest...is this 1 unit?

I have fixed this, but not yet recompiled.
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Old 05-29-1999, 09:25 AM   #7
eutectic
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Default Re: Tips and tricks - making vehicles

Yep!

The smallest grid is 1 unit x 1 unit.

The default when you start SinEd is 8 unit.

The largest grid setting is 64 unit (the 7 key).

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Old 05-29-1999, 02:01 PM   #8
claudec
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Default Re: Tips and tricks - making vehicles

The unit size you have the grid set to is displayed in the title bar (top of window)of the 2D views. SinEd does not start out displaying this. It only starts displaying it after you have changed grid size. I make it a habit to set grid size when I start a session with SinEd just to get the display up there. Hope this helps a little bit

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Try playing custom levels. They add spice and variety to your playing experience. Also encourage server admins to run custom levels so we can all enjoy them.
For a great custom level to start with try "Nukesville I - Arena" available at:
www.sinpost.com or my site at http://www.ripco.com/~claudec/



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Old 06-02-1999, 06:28 PM   #9
BlindTypist
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Default Re: Tips and tricks - making vehicles

I was just wondering what possible good are the "enter" and "exit" script commands in regard to vehicles.

waitforplayer
thread start_me_up
end

start_me_up:
*1 enter $my_ATV
end

This script starts the player as if he was sitting on a vehicle, but there isn't a vehicle under him. This would be kind of cool, except he moves VERY slowly.

In order for this to work, there has to be a vehicle with the targetname $my_ATV. I have tried to set the vehiclespeed to a higher value, hoping he would go faster... but nope.

It's kind of wacky, because you can make the script so that if the player presses a button, he goes into this "sitting on an invisible slow-ass ATV" mode.

I am assuming the game uses these internally to make the player enter and exit the vehicles.

Of course the exit script command makes the player exit the vehicle. What is up with these? Are we not supposed to be able to use these commands?
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Old 06-03-1999, 11:06 PM   #10
eutectic
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Default Re: Tips and tricks - making vehicles

Yeah, I tested those commands myself and I got the same results. According to the info I have in Ritual's emails, this command was supposed to make the player enter the vehicle from anywhere in the map but it clearly doesn't work.

I was also hoping I could make actors use vehicles (thugs on ATV's would've been kinda cool) but no joy

The exit command of course works fine if it's given while the player is on the vehicle (it's unequivocal right?).

All the commands for vehicles can, of course, be found in the vehicles.cpp file from the source code and yes, in theory, all those commands should work but...

While testing all the commands, I found a LOT that simply didn't work at all (and not just vehicle commands). When this happens, this could be caused by 2 things:

1. I'm not using the proper syntax. A small typo (missing parentheses like in the moveto command for example) can make all the difference. In this case, the command works but I'm missing a crucial piece of syntaxic or contextual info to use it properly.

3. The command code is broken, incomplete or was simply dropped in the course of development. IOW, it really doesn't work.

Since the developers don't have time to answer ALL my questions, practical considerations force me to assume that the command doesn't work until somebody who knows better tells me otherwise.

I know this ISN'T the ideal approach but with 500 commands to document and limited + often contradictory information at my disposition, it's the only one I have really.

But on the brighter side, I'm confident that I can still get around 90% of the commands documented that way.

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Old 06-05-1999, 09:16 AM   #11
Maxwolf
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Default Re: Tips and tricks - making vehicles

HumVee's
Is it possable to make them I remember screen shots and tons of info on them fro m PC Gamer but NEVER did I drive one...Is it even possable to do so. If so please tell I mean god a HumVee how cool is that compared to some crappy 4x4

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Old 06-05-1999, 10:46 AM   #12
eutectic
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Default Re: Tips and tricks - making vehicles

No, there aren't any drivable HUMV's in SiN.

Ritual was forced to remove them from the game because of "copyright" issues. The HUMV manufaturer(cant remember the name) was probably asking Ritual for ridiculously high royalties for the permission to use their name in the game.

Another fine example of the old saying: the richer you get, the greedier you are.

Sheesh! Asking for money to get free publicity. What makes this even more aggravating is that the manufacturers of the HUMV are MEGA-rich with all the US military contracts plus all the ones they sell to Arnold (Swarzenegger) at the consumer level

WARNING: just speculating and ranting here.

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