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Old 07-31-1999, 01:59 AM   #1
claudec
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Default Read MP in FAKK2 taking back seat or trunk to SP

Well I was willing to try the 3rd person view thing though I was a bit leary of it. I was even willing to keep playing it whether I liked it or not until I got the hang of third person play. And, then make my final judgement of whether I liked it or not. However with MP taking a trunk to SP I think I will wait until I read some reviews on its MP. If its not good, forget it. Fact is the Sin CTF is an MP only game. Not much point to CTF SP. And the net code was horribly ruined in that game. So now we have a game where MP takes a back seat or trunk to SP. I can only imagine how terrible the netcode will be.

I love the game of sin and think the developers did a great job. But they took a very bad step in the wrong direction with Sin CTF. The net code is terrible and it is a totaly lagged out game. The balance was ruinbed by a super overpowered sniper rifle and pulsar double damage combination. It broke from Sins traditional more drawn out "Dog fighting style" and went the way of Quakes "Single shot style" many people liked Sin becouse of its "Dog fighting" style. It helps to equalize the playing field when it comes to ping differential.

With such a step in the wrong direction with Sin CTF and that being an MP only game. I can only imagine how bad it will be with FAKK2 a game were MP is not a big consideration at all.

I think the third person thing is going to be a hard enough hurdle to overcome. Even if done well its going to take a lot of convincing to get players to believe it. That alone could be overcome. But in combination with no emphasis on MP at all I don't think FAKK2 stands a chance. I will endevor to read up on it. If I read the MP is great, I will do as I said and try like hell to learn to like the third person perspective. But I doubt I will DL the demo till I have heard about the MP play.

Bottom line for me MP is where it is at. I don't even play the SP games anymore. I would like to but there is no time. And, MP is my first love so my limited time it goes to MP. I know there are a lot of other players who consider MP to be the most important aspect of a game. There is room for SP that will always be the case. But I think the big sales are going to be in MP games. I think FAKK2 is taking a big risk of falure by not putting emphasis on MP and having a third person game.

Maybe I will be proven wrong on this If I am I will state publicly that I was wrong. Only time will tell. I wish you guys the best. I will read up on the game when it comes out. We will just have to see.

Please don't take me wrong on this. I loved Sin and think the developers are great. I understand that it is very difficult to figure out what the public will like. So sometimes steps in the wrong direction occur.
I do not mean to put down anyone at Ritual or Ritual itself. You guys are great and even if I don't end up liking FAKK2 I am sure you guys will make some fantastic game down the line that does suit my tastes. These are just my thoughts and feelings based on what little I have read about FAKK2 so far. As the release gets closer I expect there will be much more info on it released and I may change my opinion.

[This message has been edited by claudec (edited 08-01-99).]
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Old 08-19-1999, 12:53 AM   #2
markd
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Default Re: Read MP in FAKK2 taking back seat or trunk to SP

Claudec,

You of course are entitled to your own opinion about Sin CTF and how it compares to Sin DM, but I think you are in the minority of the Sin CTF players out there when you say it sucks. While I agree that there were/are some balancing issues with Sin CTF, I think the experience as a whole works really well.

On to FAKK 2, we have been very quiet over the last few months, mainly because we don't want to start hyping a product that isn't coming out until the beginning of next year. It is unclear right now what FAKK 2 DM is going to be, but I'll tell you right now that it will NOT be like every other game. Whether this is a good or bad thing remains to be seen, but we are going to approach DM for FAKK 2 from a FAKK 2 perspective and not from a Q3 perspective. I hope you have enough faith in us based on what we have accomplished so far to make a good game out of FAKK 2.

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Old 08-19-1999, 07:41 PM   #3
RiEvEr
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Default Re: Read MP in FAKK2 taking back seat or trunk to SP

I can see where Claudec's coming from on this. I noticed in the CTF code where the weapon damage had been changed from normal DM and that this would bring about just the style of play that he's complaining about.
I like SiNCTF, it's fast, it's fun and it's very enjoyable as long as there are no LPBs in the game. I'm looking forward to teaching the bots to play it now I have some source at last *grin*
FAKK2 - Ok Mark, I believe you don't wasnt to hype it in advance. The only real failing SiN had was the crap release CD version 1.00. That put a LOT of people off the game. The lack of bots was rectified as soon as I got hooked on it . I did mail all you guys about bots for FAKK2 - keep it in mind, lots of people have slow net connections and a good bot can really extend the life of a game once you finish the SP. The MP also tends to spawn lots of add-ons, TCs, maps, new weapons, etc. and builds a community that can extend the shelf-life of the game. When all is said and done, you've got to pay for that Q3 engine somehow =)

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Old 08-24-1999, 01:42 AM   #4
ninken
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Default Re: Read MP in FAKK2 taking back seat or trunk to SP

I agree 3rd person is not the best view to play a game! So do both you are using the quake 3 engine so that should not be too hard! If anything make it a cheat code to go to First person!
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Old 08-29-1999, 01:32 PM   #5
Wilka
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Default Re: Read MP in FAKK2 taking back seat or trunk to SP

3rd person can be good, look at Heritic2. If it's done right and doesn't have crap slow controls (i.e. TR1,2 & 3 or PoP3d).

It's not like it's going to be written as a first person game then have the first person taken out of it, like if you played SiN only in the third person mode.
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Old 09-09-1999, 07:40 AM   #6
Bass2496
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Default Re: Read MP in FAKK2 taking back seat or trunk to SP

All I can say about this is that I trust in Ritual and I know that FAKK2 will be all I dream about. One of the coolest things about the game (besides the game itself of course is the Gathering of Developers. Not really sure what happened, but rumor was that Activision was responsible for the pressure to release Sin on time. (I think the day after Sin was released the term 'when its done' started being used. ) Well, enough babbling for me. Even if MP does take a back seat to SP. I will get the game (or my overaged friend will ) just to study the scripting. I also wanna see the usage of in-game consoles. And I want to see if the layout commands have improved (not that they were bad, Sin was the first to do it, and the only company that could do better than Ritual on something like that is Ritual.) Good luck. I can't wait to see this game and what you geniouses came up with.

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Old 09-09-1999, 06:44 PM   #7
Wicket
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Default Re: Read MP in FAKK2 taking back seat or trunk to SP

Without a doubt, I can't wait for FAKK2. I love the SP in SiN, and I beleive this will match it. When I saw the E3 demo, I was amazed by it. And that was the temporary model. Geez

Also, suprise me on the MP, just make sure it's good.

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Old 09-09-1999, 06:45 PM   #8
Wicket
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Default Re: Read MP in FAKK2 taking back seat or trunk to SP

And Bass: It WAS Activision's fault with the rush. I wonder why they dumped em?
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Old 09-09-1999, 07:18 PM   #9
claudec
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Default Re: Read MP in FAKK2 taking back seat or trunk to SP

Actualy id software has been using the term "when its ready" for a long time now. In fact the only game they have released since Doom II that had a definate release date (that I know of) was Hexen (the original) and that was released on halloween. I bet the had it ready even before they gave that release date.

I hope the reason Ritual is not doing business with Activision is becouse of what Activision did. I also hope that Gathering of Developers is not an Activision front. It is very common for companies that ruin their names in the eyes of the public, to change names, or buy out other comapanies and use their names until those names are ruined. IOW I hope Activision has nothing to do with Gathering of Developers.

Personally I dont think I will ever buy another game that has been published by Activision becouse of what they did to Sin.
(excepting those games wherin the contract with activision was signed before they screwed over Sin). And, I beleive the industry as a whole should punish Activision by not doing business with them. If the development companies were to refuse to do business with Activision it would send a strong message to the other publishers and perhaps help prevent this from happening again. All I can say is that if I did work in the industry I would never take a job with a company that has Activision as its publisher.

I realize that all of what I just said will never happen. Most busness people are pussies. They will allow themselves to be pushed around and do nothing about it. So it is doubtfull anyone will ever have the balls to tell Activison to go take a hike.

In fact I wouldnt be a bit surprised if Ritual ends up doing business with them again.

Also does anyone reading this know if anything actually was done to Activision for their crime? Or, at least has anything happened in the industry as a result? for instance do development companies have something written in their contracts with publishers, to prevent publisher from releasing code before develpers say it's finished?

As for FAKK2 scripting. Thats why I am here I am very interested in continueing my work with Sin. However that is not possible as Sin is dying and dying fast. In fact I doubt I will be able to get my next few maps out before there are no servers left. WOS CTF will give it a boost for a while (how much and how long is anybodies guess). So I really want FAKK2 to be a great game. It will be using Sinscript reletivily unchanged. I doubt you will see any changes in the layout commands. I guess that they want to concentrate on the game. And not on the scripting language, menu commands and other side stuff like that. Those things have already been done, they will just get ported, as is, into FAKK2.

In fact when you look at it they didnt get a chance to do a whole lot with scripting in Sin. There is still plenty of stuff Sinscript can do.

With Sin the level designers had to learn Sinscript without the benefit of the node docs or examples of others work. Which is very difficult to do. Now they have experience with it so they can spend more time actualy employing it and less time figuring out how to use it. They also have access to the node docs wich are undoubtedly way better than any docs ever produced in-house at Ritual. So we will hopefully see some kick ass scripting in FAKK2.

While I am on the subject I would be very hard pressed to believe that the level designers at Ritual don't heavely use Eutectics Sinscript docs. They have to be
using those docs. How could anyone even the guys at Ritual not find Eutectics docs incredibly usefull. If they are using them, I think they should consider giving Eutectic a bit of credit in the games list of credits.

I will be looking seriously into FAKK2 and am awaiting its arrival with anticipation. Since I originaly wrote post that started this thread there have been some comments in this forum that gives me a bit of hope for the MP. One Ritual people are here reading this forum and have seen that people really do want good MP. I believe they will respond to that.

I believe they are quite capable of making a good game out of FAKK2. I just hope its not another good game that doesn't sell, becouse I wonder if they can stay in business long if FAKK2 doesnt work out. And it would really suck to loose such a good company.


[This message has been edited by claudec (edited 09-09-99).]
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Old 09-09-1999, 08:12 PM   #10
Bass2496
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Default Re: Read MP in FAKK2 taking back seat or trunk to SP

I'm just hoping that 3rd person is gonna be fun getting used to. Also, I have a master plan that I will reveal bit by bit to the universe, but here's the main idea:
When FAKK2 becomes a huge-moungous super hit and id, Valve, etc. go out of business, and all the former Quakers (I love calling them 'brother') come to play FAKK2, and they shout, "OH GREAT GODS OF RITUAL GIVE US MORE!!!!" then I will act like Moses and say, "Cross the Ritual sea and give way to Sin!!!!!!!" Then they will all rush to their local EB (I love money, ) and buy a copy of Sin. People will be special ordering it, etc. Then Sin AND FAKK2 will be the best games ever and crazed SINNERS will rush Activision and they will be so overcome with self-hate that they give all their money to Ritual to make more games.
:lease stop listening here::
Then they will run to Moses and say, "Thank you Moses for showing us the way to Sin and giving us a chance to experience pleasure only surpassed by one thing!!!" Then Moses said to the people, "No prob."
All of a sudden, everyone hears cries of "JACKASS!!!!" from the re-opened Spry 24/7 (24.1.213.223).
"What is this?"
"It is I! The Last Doomer!"
"What do you have plugged into your...your... ATHLON?!?!?!?!?!?"
"That would be a cable modem! Turns out people think I am funny! A kazillionaire pays me tons of money to make him laugh...heh....jackass."
"Cool."
Everyone is there:
Johnny MiB and the gang
The whole DPG clan
PBP back together
BaS in full swing
TKCS, 4:20, EVERYONE!!!!!!!
This story always brings tears to my eyes (This part is serious, I am crying.)
I guess it is a bit nostalgic, but remember the old days?

Book of Sin
Ritual 6:1-67

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Old 09-09-1999, 09:30 PM   #11
Wicket
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Default Re: Read MP in FAKK2 taking back seat or trunk to SP

That made me cry as well... and I'm like Claudec, I'm going from SiN to FAKK2. And I hope Activision is severly ****ed

Good luck to Ritual, and make it one kick ass game!
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